Tuesday, Mar 22, 2022 • 45min
Ep 324: Gems across all genres
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Readers, last week's guest told us about her grandmother signing her up for her first library card, and today's guest is a grandmother who is nurturing the next generation of readers!
Joanne Booy spent most of her life living internationally in a wide range of locations, but one thing has remained constant in her life—her passion for reading! She's relied on books to be companions in isolated corners of the globe, and she's worked hard to make books accessible to others, too.
So it's not surprising that when the Covid-19 lockdowns came to their town in Canada, Joanne took on a new book role in the lives of her four grandchildren: selecting library books to be delivered to their home each week! Joanne and Anne discuss the challenge of finding the right books for young readers, as well as what Joanne's reading life looks like right now, and what she's seeking. Plus, listen in as Anne and Joanne talk about the favorite author who also wrote the book Joanne hated, and hear Anne's suggestions for reading gems just waiting to be discovered.
Find the full list of books mentioned in today's episode at our show notes page, whatshouldireadnextpodcast.com/324, and leave a comment on that post to share what you think Joanne should read next!
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Anne Bogel
Joanne Booy
Transcript
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Anne Bogel
00:00
Well, you know, fine free is the new trend.
Share
Joanne Booy
00:02
They actually are fine free, but they've lost a few books.
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Anne Bogel
00:07
Hey readers, I'm Anne Bogel and this is "What Should I Read Next", episode 324. Welcome to the show that's dedicated to answering the question that plagues every reader: What should I read next?
Share
00:20
We don't get bossy on the show. What we will do here is give you the information you need to choose your next read.
Share
00:26
Every week we'll talk all things books and reading and do a little literary matchmaking with one guest.
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Break
Anne Bogel
03:09
Readers, our just last week started a lifelong library love affair thanks to her grandmother and today I'm talking to a grandmother who is nurturing the next generation of readers. Joanne Booy has lived around the world in the midst of diverse peoples and cultures.
Share
03:22
But one thing has always been the same: her love of reading. Whether she was making a pilgrimage to the nearest bookstore in Kenya or working as a teacher, librarian in
Canada,
where she now lives. She's always turned to reading as both a diversion and a way to create connection.Share
03:36
When her community was faced with Covid lockdowns, Joanne took on the role of book genie to her 4 grandchildren, ensuring they received a steady supply of library deliveries when they couldn't leave the house.
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03:46
Joanne and I chat today about the art of finding the right books for eager young readers and how curating her grandkids reading selections gave her an enjoyable window into their world and helped strengthen their connection during a difficult time.
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03:58
And we dig into Joanne's own reading life. Her search for titles that are well-written and life affirming and why she hated a book written by one of her favorite authors. I leave her with recommendations for reading gems that I think she'll connect with across a variety of genres. Let's get to it.
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04:14
Joanne, welcome to the show.
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Joanne Booy
04:16
Hi Anne! It's great to be here.
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Anne Bogel
04:18
Joanne, what brings you to "What Should I Read Next" today?
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Joanne Booy
04:21
I thought about it over the years. I've listened to your podcast for quite some time. I just never thought I was interesting enough. But then, when I started doing a new bookish project during the pandemic, I thought that might be kind of timely.
Share
Anne Bogel
04:33
Well, I am looking forward to hearing more about that. Joanne, what are you typically doing on a Tuesday morning when the show comes out?
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Joanne Booy
04:40
I'm usually sewing. I listen to the podcast while I'm sewing, I'm a quilter. And I have to say that your voice is probably stitched into quite a few quilts.
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Anne Bogel
04:49
I am honored. Thank you very much. And where are you in the world?
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Joanne Booy
04:55
Well, I live in Canada, just outside of Toronto. But we lived many years overseas. My husband's an international development worker, a humanitarian aid worker, and we're retired now.
Share
05:05
But we lived for 20 years in two different countries in Africa and 6 years in the UK. Through my life, I've had to adapt to change and challenges and it's kind of been a theme in my life. So, I've been thrown out of my comfort zone quite a few times. But I've always managed to keep books as part of the journey.
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Anne Bogel
05:23
Could you tell us a little more about the different places you've lived and especially how your reading life has followed you around the globe?
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Joanne Booy
05:29
So, when we were first married, we moved to Sierra Leone and we lived in a tiny remote village. We had no electricity, no running water. This is, of course, before cellphones and internet.
Share
05:39
So even though I didn't read much as a child, my reading really got rooted in those 6 years because it was actually our default form of evening entertainment. The sun would go down at 6:30 p. m. and we'd sit by buggy kerosene lamps and read our books. So books were very precious.
Share
05:58
We didn't have many of them. So when a book arrived we all read it and even our project colleagues read it and we would have impromptu book club conversations when we saw each other. Those six years were really foundational for for my husband and I and living with scarcity for 6 years really made me learn not to take things for granted.
Share
06:16
After that, we moved to Tanzania and we lived there for 13 years. Then we lived in a city with more infrastructure in an international school, but still no libraries or bookstores in English language. And no TV, at first, for quite a few years. My sister in law actually gave me 3 of the first Harry Potter books and I didn't know what they were.
Share
06:37
I put them aside for Christmas and then my son had malaria, and he was recovering and really bored, and so I pulled those books out and gave them to him. He just ripped through them, loved them. We all ended up reading them and after that we were very excited to, you know, make our annual trip to Nairobi to get another installment.
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Anne Bogel
06:60
Tell me about the bookstore in Nairobi.
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Joanne Booy
07:02
Well, it was nice. It was a Disneyland. They had the latest. Then, you know, Arusha is also the doorstep to the Serengeti and other game parks with African wildlife. And for most people going on a safari or climbing Mount Kilimanjaro, which is very near to us too, is a trip of a lifetime.
Share
07:21
And when our kids were little, they thought it was perfectly normal to go to see elephants and giraffes and zebras on the weekends. In fact, when our oldest daughter was very little, she misnamed one of
CS Lewis's
Chronicles, the Lion, the Witch
and the Warthog. So yeah, my bookish pursuits there in Arusha was actually building a used book library.Share
07:42
Our church had an add book card with a few books on it and I ask people to donate more. And it grew to a wall and a number of shelves and then the church built a new building and I got a purpose built room. So that library in that church is still functioning to this day.
Share
Anne Bogel
07:59
Joanne, how did you happen to settle in Canada?
Share
Joanne Booy
08:02
When the kids were 14, 16 and 18 we actually moved back to Canada. I thought I might go back and get a library science degree, but I got offered, by a weird set of circumstances, my dream job. I became a teacher librarian for 8 years in a private high school, where our 2 younger kids attended. And I just loved sharing the joy of reading and helping students find good information.
Share
08:25
And then the school built a brand new library and I got to help design it. So that was amazing. They gave me this gorgeous atrium space where I helped to build an open concept multipurpose space with group work and computers and and lots of books, of course, and window seats.
Share
08:44
So that made the job even better, settled into the new space. And I love the job even more and then, you can probably guess what happened next. We had to move again. Happily, we moved, our kids were growing up now, but we moved to England, which was amazing. It was an opportunity of a lifetime to be there. We lived there for 6 years.
Share
09:05
We lived in the cutest little historic town that you've ever seen. It was called
Eton
. It was right across the river from Windsor Castle
. I could open my bedroom curtains in the morning and see Windsor Castle
tower and the Royal Standard would be flying and I would know the queen was in. A fantastic place to live for a while.Share
09:21
But I was still really sad and a little bit grumpy about losing my library job that I loved so much. But you know, such is the love of books. So I have a reading log. My husband suggested that I turned the log into a blog and so that's when "Joanne's Reading Blog" was born and, 11 years later, it's still going strong.
Share
Anne Bogel
09:41
Well, congratulations! But now you're back in
Canada
.Share
Joanne Booy
09:44
We are. And we moved back to
Canada
again when the grandchildren started to arrive. And then a couple of years later the pandemic hit and we were into lockdown. Libraries were closed, we couldn't see our children even though they lived right across town. Our poor kids were going crazy. They were trying to work from home and they were, you know, taking care of their kids.Share
10:05
It was really frustrating for me as an "oma". I'm an "oma" because I'm Dutch. I couldn't go over and help like I used to. And so I had to get creative and I came up with an idea. I got their library login and started putting picture books on hold for them to collect curbside. It was really fun for me.
Share
10:23
It was fun for my librarian heart and healing for my oma heart and it was something they had no time for. So actually, I'm still doing it. You know, the libraries are open now, but I'm still doing it because it really was a lot of fun and it is still a lot of fun. Our daughter jokes that she could tell what's happening in their family by the books that I ordered.
Share
10:44
So you know, "Berenstain Bears Go Camping" or "Toilet Tales" are "Very Cranky Bear". So actually, it's a little bit nerdy, but I do have to check in regularly with their account and I do their renewals, but I do draw the line at paying overdue fines, so.
Share
11:01
Well, you know, fine free is the new trend.
Share
11:03
They actually are fine free, but they've lost a few books.
Share
Anne Bogel
11:06
Okay, it's still very expensive to lose books. Joanne, how old are your grandchildren now?
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Joanne Booy
11:12
Actually the oldest one just turned 5 today and then one was born in December and there's a 2 year old and a 3 year old. Four grandchildren under the age of 5. So the family dinners are chaotic, but it's lovely. They're lovely.
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Anne Bogel
11:27
I'm glad to hear it. Last week, I talked to Houston Luke, who talked about how her grandmother gave her good books to read and that was absolutely formative in her reading life. And now it's so wonderful to get to talk to the grandmother who is doing the formation in her young people's reading lives.
Share
11:41
So your grandchildren already love books, but you and I both know how difficult it can be to keep a child who loves to read surrounded by good books, because they go through them so quickly. Even if they do love to read the same ones over and over again, they go through them so quickly.
Share
11:59
You have a lot of familiarity with this, from many different roles you filled in your life. Tell me a little bit about what's so tricky about matching up great books with kids who want to read, but don't necessarily know what they want to read.
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12:13
I think a lot of young parents or educators or childcare providers are really surprised to realize you can't just walk into a library and grab a stack and go. And I just remember when my children were young. I was pretty young when I had my children, I remember going to the library and looking at the thousands of books surrounding me in the children's section and thinking, "I have no idea how to tell what's good." Like, if I know what I'm looking for, I can find it on the shelf. But I don't know what I'm looking for and I don't know how to know.
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Joanne Booy
12:42
And it's actually particularly difficult with picture books. Because they will have some on display in the library, but most of them are spine facing out and there's no way you can figure out which books they are on the shelf. It's very difficult with picture books.
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Anne Bogel
12:56
And you can pull them off the shelf one at a time, but that is very time consuming. Especially if there's not a pandemic on and you have said children with you, who don't necessarily want to watch you bet all the titles they might take home with them.
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Joanne Booy
13:09
That's right. They may not pick the books that you want them to pick. Right? That's the other option. It's good if they can pick some of their own, of course. But this way I can really target authors that I know they like and good authors. I keep a spreadsheet so, you know, I track a little bit, I talk to them, I find out what they like.
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13:26
I think about what's going on in their life and what they might like to to read about and it's worked really well. It's actually just a nice project for me. I enjoy it a lot.
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Anne Bogel
13:37
I think we find, especially during the pandemic, that so many people are reading and looking for books not just for themselves but for others in their lives.
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13:45
Do you have any tips for those who are looking for books for the young readers in their lives?
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Joanne Booy
13:49
I think it's just being aware of authors, to research that online. Go to your favorite bookstore online and look at their staff picks. Look at book lists. I'm sure there's other blogs that focus on children's books. I just zoom around a bit on Google and look at what the latest greatest is. I also hava a, there's a bookstore in Michigan, that has great recommendations. So I get their newsletter. Brilliant Books.
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Anne Bogel
14:16
Who are your grandchildren's favorite authors?
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Joanne Booy
14:18
The 2 year old loved singing along with Raffi's songs for a while. The 5 year old loves dinosaurs and rockets and is beginning to get ready to read. So, "Pete The Cat" is a favorite.
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14:31
And I actually scored and by accident got to read along. He was amazed with it, he thought it was magic, right? That the book was reading to him all by itself and his sister loved that too.
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14:44
So, yeah, it's a little bit luck, you know? And it's a little bit just trying different things and I'm sure there's a lot of things that don't resonate with them, but that's where communication helps. And I read to them when they come over. So I kind of know what they like.
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Anne Bogel
14:56
So it sounds like you are an avid user of the whole system.
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Joanne Booy
15:00
Yes. I keep my TBR list on
Goodreads
and I worked the list from both ends. So I get the older books from the library print copy and that way I can keep them for a long time. I can keep renewing them. And then, the latest greatest, I put on my ebook and I can just have them all suspended and let them go one at a time. And then I also listen to audiobooks, nonfiction, while I'm sewing. Along with your podcast.Share
Anne Bogel
15:27
So latest and greatest that's a phrase you've used a few times. What do you have in mind when you say that?
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Joanne Booy
15:32
I guess the recommendations I hear on your podcast, book lists that I look at, new books that have come out.
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Anne Bogel
15:39
New, promising titles. Okay. Joanne, we're going to get into your reading life. How did you choose the books that you're going to talk about today?
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Joanne Booy
15:47
Well, generally the books I picked represent the type of gems that I'm always looking for. So this is really hard, because there's a lot of them. But I always am looking for those gems that are well-written, wise, life-affirming, reveal a slice of humanity, have a bit of a humour. Good pacing, plotting, surprising in some way.
Share
16:09
I like a straightforward style in a book. I guess the authors that I'm thinking of with these types of books are
William Kent Krueger,
Mary Lawson
, Matt Haig,
TJ Klune
. Across the genres you can find books with a perspective that you appreciate. Kent Haruf
is another one.Share
16:29
And so that's generally what I'm always looking for. And so that's what I look for to choose my books. But specifically, I picked one African connection, one
UK
connection and a picture book.Share
Break
Anne Bogel
18:42
Well Joanne, you know how this works. You're going to tell me 3 books you love, 1 book you don't, and what you've been reading lately, and we will talk about what you may enjoy reading next.
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18:51
That was quite a robust list you had of what you're looking for in a book. I think I'm really getting a picture already of what you're looking for and I can't wait to see how that's represented in these actual titles.
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Joanne Booy
19:02
Great, I'm excited.
Share
Anne Bogel
19:03
Tell me about your first favorite.
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Joanne Booy
19:05
Okay, my first favorite is
Where The Crawdads Sing
by Delia Owens
.Share
19:09
That's my African connection, which might be a little confusing since it's set in
North Carolina
. But I'll get to that in a minute. I love this book because it focused on Kya, who was abandoned by her whole family. And she had to survive all by herself and in an isolated situation. She grew up in the marsh and it's fascinating how the marsh became her emotional and physical sustenance.Share
19:34
The town people just didn't understand her and she was very marginalized by them and they were... I think they didn't understand her, so they were afraid of her and called her "the marsh girl". Now, at the beginning of the book, there's a murder. Of course, because of who she is. the town thinks that she did it. And there's a court case and I won't say more about what happens in the book, but there's some beautiful surprises at the end.
Share
19:58
The writing is beautiful and it's just one of these immersive stories that just carried me along. The African connection is, this is
Delia's
first novel. But when she was younger, she and her husband were wildlife photographers in Africa.
And so, she experienced isolation there and also a real connection with nature that Delia
was able to bring to a totally different context in Where The Crawdads Sing
in North Carolina
.Share
20:28
So I thought that was very clever and I really thought she wrote the isolation really well. I've experienced isolation myself, and I think that that really came through well.
Share
Anne Bogel
20:40
That is
Where The Crawdads Sing
by Delia Owens
. Joanne, what did you choose for your second favorite book?Share
Joanne Booy
20:45
Okay, my second book is the
UK
connection. So it's "The Trouble with Goats and Sheep" by Joanna Cannon
.Share
20:52
This book is funny, quirky, charming. It has deep and sharp insights into human behavior. So it's set in a small town in
England
. It's part whodunit, part coming of age. About the secrets behind every door, and it captures british suburban life so well.Share
21:11
The story is during a heat wave on a small british cul-de-sac. In 1976 a woman goes missing and 2 girls, young girls, decide to investigate. The girls tackle both simple logistics, but also big existential questions while they search and investigate to find out what happened to Mrs. Chrissy.
Share
21:28
And so this book put me right back on our little street in
Eton
where we lived. It's just a very quirky, charming, beautifully written. There were so many sentences that were really about ordinary stuff, but I wrote them down because they were just so well crafted and showed such an insight into humanity. The author is a british psychiatrist and so she brings a really neat element to the book, that way.Share
21:55
She's written another book that did exactly the same thing called "Three Things About Elsie", which was about a senior's home. And so she brought a lot of deep insights into that experience with that. So, the book is also completely funny. There's hilarious, situational comedy, but also it features classic british quick wit.
Share
22:14
You know, the british have a great sense of humor and that just shines through in this book. So, it's a neat combination of funny and serious because
Joanna Cannon
also has a memoir about her own story of burnout as a health care worker, called "Breaking and Mending", which I haven't read yet, but I want to because I think it's hugely relevant right now.Share
Anne Bogel
22:35
That's so interesting. I didn't know about her memoir. Another book with a connection to a place you've lived.
Share
22:40
That is "The Trouble with Goats and Sheep" by
Joanna Cannon.
And Joanne, what did you choose to complete your favorites' list?Share
Joanne Booy
22:46
I chose a picture book. "
The Boy, The Mole, The Fox And The Horse
" by Charlie Mackesy
. Charlie Mackesy
himself says that the story is for 8 or 80. Sometimes, I feel I'm both. It has exquisite illustrations, they're just simple sketches really, but they're accompanied by really simple words to live by and yet even though everything is super simple and sort of looks unfinished, there's a beautiful perspective that's communicated.Share
23:18
A bravery, acceptance, friendship kindness, resilience. It's really life-affirming and very real. It's not like a hallmark card and the sketches are, like I said, a bit unfinished and imperfect, which is kind of like us all, you know? We're all a work-in-progress and we all get scared.
Share
23:38
We all are unsure about things and we're all in need of a bit of kindness. And I just loved the book for that. I bought many copies and gave them to people I love because it's just a book that you will pick up often in your life.
Share
Anne Bogel
23:53
Yes, I've heard so many people say that that one was, I don't know if "fun for the whole family" is the word, but yes, that 8-80 is actually quite an apt description that people are finding to be true in their own reading lives. What led you to pick that one up?
Share
Joanne Booy
24:06
I don't actually know how this came across. I should keep better notes of where I find books.
Share
Anne Bogel
24:12
I don't know, sometimes it's nice to feel like the right book just dropped out of the sky for you.
Share
Joanne Booy
24:16
It's true. Books have a way of finding us at just the right time.
Share
Anne Bogel
24:20
That was
The Boy, The Mole, The Fox And The Horse
by Charlie Mackesy
.Share
24:24
Now, Joanne tell me about a book that didn't land right for you.
Share
Joanne Booy
24:27
The Dutch House
by Ann Patchett.
And, you know, it had all the elements. It should have been a favorite of mine. I bought it because of all the elements that I thought I would connect with and I just didn't. Patchett
is a favorite author of mine. I love "Bel Canto", "State of Wonder" has the best snake story I've ever read.Share
Anne Bogel
24:48
I have to say that's not a category I keep in my reading log.
Share
Joanne Booy
24:52
No, well, you haven't lived in
Africa
, right?Share
24:55
I'm Dutch. I love books with houses that are a character in a story. I love that
Patchett
has a bookstore. I love family sagas. I should have liked this book, and I just didn't connect with it. I don't know why. I think I might try to listen to it in audiobook form, I mean, Tom Hanks
might raise it up a level for me. Well, we'll see.Share
25:21
I think also the obsessiveness of Danny and Maeve sitting in the car so much just began to annoy me and bore me. You know, maybe it was just because I had no patience with them after all the houses I've won and lost in my life. I don't know.
Share
Anne Bogel
25:35
Tell me about the importance of connecting with a book for you, as a reader. What does that feel like to you?
Share
Joanne Booy
25:41
Honestly, I think it's a bit magical. My disappointment might have been my expectation. You know, you kind of expect all authors to give you the same perspective of the same feeling when you read the book and that's not always the case.
Share
25:54
So I think my expectations may have been unfair in this case. I don't know what the connection is, but I know when I read it and I have this feeling like I can relax and be, "I'm in the hands of a good author." I know that the story will keep me going and I have that early on.
Share
26:13
So if I'm not feeling that connection, I usually, often, don't finish the book. But
The Dutch House
I had bought. So I finished it.Share
Anne Bogel
26:21
So does it have to do with the characters themselves? Is it more about a feel from the story?
Share
Joanne Booy
26:29
I think it's a gut thing. There are authors that have a perspective and it may be a point to something beyond the story. That may be what I'm looking for. Some kind of meaning or wisdom or something beyond the story itself, that helps.
Share
Anne Bogel
26:45
Joanne, that's so interesting. And I think you really have an opportunity here to learn more about yourself as a reader. Because you know that you've loved
Ann Patchett
in the past, and you really connected with, at least, 2 of her previous books. You mentioned "Bel Canto" and "State of Wonder".Share
26:57
I'd really be interested in hearing what comes up for you, for you to reflect upon why this one elect that when the other 2 had it. Because clearly it's more than just an author whose work you feel you can really relax in and sink yourself into.
Share
27:11
And that's one of the nice things about reading books that are about similar topics or that have similar themes or that are written by the same person. Because it really gives you an opportunity to say, "Okay, it's not the author, it's not the style, there's something in the story that either really works for me or doesn't."
Share
27:27
And so this is your opportunity to see what that could be. One of my reading intentions for this year is to become more of a completist. I know I talked about this on the podcast, but
Maggie O'Farrell
is one of my favorite authors. And in the Fall, I read every one of her books and it really let me understand how her style developed.Share
27:47
But also, I would tell you I really like her style. But now that I read her work, especially her early work, I can say, "Ooh, this is where it worked for me, but this is where it didn't and why it didn't." Like, what was missing. Maybe it was a character, maybe it was an idea. She has one story that's kind of a ghost story and I really wanted her to lean all the way into that and she didn't, she let it go.
Share
28:07
The book may be exactly what the author wanted it to be, but not what I was interested in the author exploring. So just noticing, like, what did I really want the author to explore and why, and how is the actual story different?
Share
28:20
Like, that really gives me insight into myself as a person too, but also really as a reader. So I do think you've given yourself an opening to find out more about what you enjoy. Because sometimes it can be something as simple as, "I just didn't like that character and I didn't like spending time with them." The end. Easy, easy.
Share
28:41
Or the subject matter made me squidgy. It was too close to home or it was completely unrelatable and I just wasn't ready to go that far yet. There's no right or wrong answer, but I think you have the possibility of some answers.
Share
Joanne Booy
28:55
It could be different for every book too. And and every genre.
Share
Anne Bogel
28:58
Oh, absolutely.
Share
Joanne Booy
28:59
You know, perhaps I need to examine that a little bit more, but also, like, "The Trouble with Goats and Sheep". I actually started that book and bailed on it. And I left it at the cottage. And a year later it was still at the cottage, so I picked it up again and I loved it.
Share
Anne Bogel
29:12
It's so interesting how that happens.
Share
Joanne Booy
29:14
You know, how do you account for that? It happens all the time.
Share
Anne Bogel
29:18
Well, we're talking in early 2022. I feel like every book that I have disliked in the past 2 years... I just stopped and asked myself, "Was this not right for me or was it not right for me right now? Was this book hard to follow or is my poor overtaxed brain not able to follow a perfectly well written story right now?" That is a real question.
Share
Joanne Booy
29:39
And sometimes you're dealing with a book hangover. So you know, that's why, when I get a really great book that I love, I have trouble picking up another one. And what I do then is I read another one from a series that I'm in. And that really helps me to reset and it's good medicine for a book hangover.
Share
Anne Bogel
30:01
I just want to read another great book. Sometimes it's great to sit with a book we enjoyed. I'm glad you found something that works for you. Okay, so not right for you.
The Dutch House
by Ann Patchett.
Joanne, what are you reading right now?Share
Joanne Booy
30:13
Well, right now in
Canada
, we have Canada Reads
coming up and I always read the five books that are on the shortlist and put them on my blog and give the readers a little bit of a foretaste of what's coming. Canada Reads
is a nationwide book debate and I'm really proud that Canada
does this. So 5 celebrities choose 5 books that they champion?Share
30:38
They sit around the table in 4 days and debate which book should be the book that all Canadians should read. And, at first, it's very polite. You know, Canadians are pretty polite. But by the end of the week it gets pretty heated. Because people are passionate about their books.
Share
30:56
And often the books that are chosen for
Canada Reads
often celebrate diversity, cultural diversity, indigenous stories, refugee stories. So these are important books, LGBTQ stories. It's a wide range, usually.Share
31:12
So it's very hard to decide, sometimes, which story matters more than another story. But it's the annual battle of the books and we love it.
Share
Anne Bogel
31:22
Now, I think the Canadians are really doing something right here because I know so many readers who are Canadian, and even plenty who aren't, who make it a practice to read. All 5
Canada Reads
picks every year. That's just a good number.Share
31:36
That is completely doable, a little bit of a challenge, but completely doable. And I think it's so interesting that you mentioned that celebrities pick the books. And I know that that is very much on purpose because they wanted it to feel accessible. It's not literary scholars who are picking the books.
Share
31:51
But people, I mean, as much as you may or may not feel like you relate to some of the celebrities who are choosing books, perhaps more so than the literature scholar who uses big words when you're just like, "It was a great story. What else can I say?"
Share
32:08
What is it that you love about the
Canada Reads
process? What do you think that they're doing really right, that gets so many people excited about books that they might not pick up otherwise?Share
Joanne Booy
32:15
Well, I think just the fact that this is aired nationally and it really promotes reading. It highlights a number of books that otherwise wouldn't get read. It's just a great conversation and it's a national conversation and it makes me really proud, actually.
Share
32:30
You know, it's like a literary survivor. One book wins. But all 5 books are well promoted and, I think, read more in
Canada,
because of it. And it's just a very exciting thing to be a part of when it's not pandemic. Our daughter and I go and get free tickets and go to the studio audience to listen to the debate and it's just a great experience.Share
Anne Bogel
32:53
Oh, that sounds so fun! So what books have you read so far from the 2022 short list?
Share
Joanne Booy
32:57
"Washington Black" by
Esi Edugyan
is on the list. I've read Five Little Indians
by Michelle Good
, "Scarborough" by Catherine Hernandez
. Which is a neighborhood in Toronto. There's two more. I have one more to go.Share
Anne Bogel
33:12
Oh great!
Share
33:13
So I have "What Strange Paradise" by
Omar El Akkad
on my list. And then I am not familiar with "Life in the City of Dirty Water" at least not yet. By Clayton Thomas-Muller.Share
Joanne Booy
33:22
That's the city of
Winnipeg
and that's a memoir. That's the story of his life in a memoir. He's indigenous and it's his journey. So it's a bit similar to Michelle Good's
book. But her book is fiction, and his is a memoir.Share
33:36
And that makes it very challenging too, for the celebrities, because some of the books are fiction, some are memoir and it's not a level playing field always when you're debating... you know, someone's life story, as approached to someone's imagined story.
Share
33:51
Even though of course there's truth, we know there's truth in fiction. Lots of it. But yeah, it makes it quite challenging for the debate.
Share
Anne Bogel
33:59
Well luckily it doesn't have to be easy to get lots of people excited about reading these books. If you were a judge and you had to choose today and I know you haven't read them all, which one would you pick?
Share
Joanne Booy
34:08
It would be between 2 I really enjoy. I know I'm not following the rules. I think
Five Little Indians
might have squeaked a little bit past "Scarborough" for me, but both of them were very well done. You know, I feel like I'm a better person after reading it and maybe that's the benchmark of a good book.Share
Anne Bogel
34:29
Perhaps it is. Joanne, what do you want more of in your reading life right now? What do you want to look out for?
Share
Joanne Booy
34:34
I'm quite happy with the way I'm choosing books to read. Although you know, having a reading blog, I'd like to think that I'm not pressured by that in terms of what I choose to read next.
Share
34:45
But I think I am, if I'm honest. And I mean, you can't read 14 books in a series when you have a blog because everyone would be terribly bored. And sometimes you're posting a lot and people are saying, "Oh, you're you're posting a lot, aren't you doing anything else?"
Share
35:01
Or you're down the rabbit hole with a backlist and you're not really posting very often. So, all those factors are perhaps weighing on me a little bit more than than I thought they were. But yeah, as always, I'm always just looking for gems across all genres.
Share
Anne Bogel
35:18
Well, I would invite you to consider what's the point of the blog, Who is it for? Why did you start it? I can't tell you what the answers to those questions are because this is your creation. I love you listeners. But if I felt beholden to the podcast and that it dictated everything I was reading... Then I don't think this podcast would be nearly as interesting or joyful to listen to. So it's your reading life, you are the boss of it and however that comes across on the blog, I think people can learn to live with.
Share
Joanne Booy
35:45
That's very helpful and I do think that's true for me. I don't generally recommend books. I just post on books I'm reading and give my opinion and it's up to the other person to read it or not. I will say I love this book. Maybe you will too. I won't ever say you will love this book.
Share
Anne Bogel
36:06
Wait, hold on a second. Let's go back to the origin story here. You said that it was a reading log that turned into a reading blog.
Share
Joanne Booy
36:14
That's right.
Share
Anne Bogel
36:14
You, write seven book reviews in a series in a row, if you want to.
Share
Break
Anne Bogel
37:16
Okay, Joanne. So let's take a look at what we've got. You loved
Where The Crawdads Sing
by Delia Owens,
"The Trouble with Goats and Sheep" by Joanna Cannon
and The Boy, The Mole, The Fox And The Horse
by Charlie Mackesy
.Share
37:29
Not for you:
The Dutch House
by Ann Patchett
, despite having the best snake story you have ever read, you didn't feel a connection to it. And maybe, maybe you'll think about why, after we hang up.Share
37:40
Currently you're reading the
Canada Reads'
picks and you are always on the lookout for well-written, wise and life-affirming, unsentimental, surprising, they reveal a slice of humanity, they often have some humor and page turning is also a plus.Share
37:56
And gems of all genres will always be welcome on your library holds list. We could go so many different directions. But I think I want to start with a picture book. Can we do that?
Share
Joanne Booy
38:07
Oh yeah, okay.
Share
Anne Bogel
38:09
And I know you read widely, which means, maybe you've read all of these. Maybe you haven't, but I think it's worth finding out.
Share
Joanne Booy
38:15
There're so many books. So many books, you know? You can't read it all.
Share
Anne Bogel
38:20
Okay. Now, this is a picture book for grown ups. It is not for kids and that can be confusing readers, because a lot of times you see a picture book at the bookstore and you think, "Oh, I know who these books are for", but this is not for your grandchildren, this is for you. It's actually a whole series at this point. I think there's 7 books, a 7 book series.
Share
38:38
The book I have in mind is by
Nick Bantock
. It's called Griffin And Sabine
. Subtitle: "An Extraordinary Correspondence". And it came out in the early'90s. Is this a series you're familiar with?Share
Joanne Booy
38:50
No, I have never heard of it.
Share
Anne Bogel
38:51
Oh, I'm so glad to hear it. Okay, this is... I think the publisher says at the beginning, but it's partly a romance, partly a mystery, and completely a work of art. And it is completely beautiful. The illustrations are really striking. But you can see that for yourself. Let's talk about the story.
Share
39:09
The whole story is told as correspondence on a series of postcards. This is how it begins. This postcard is addressed to Griffin Moss. He's an illustrator in
London
and it's from a woman named Sabine.Share
39:23
She lives on an island far, far away. So she writes, "Griffin, it's good to get in touch with you at last. Could I have one of your fish postcards? I think you're right. The wine glass has more impact than the cup", signed, Sabine in the South Pacific. Now, Joanne, I know this doesn't mean anything to you.
Share
39:41
But it means a lot to Griffin, who's going, "I work alone in my studio in
London
illustrating these postcards. How in the world does this woman know that I toyed around with a different version of it? They did have a cup and not a wine glass. Like, nobody sees me, right? What in the world?"Share
39:58
So, he writes back to her and they strike up a correspondence and the course of this discover that they share some kind of magical bond. And Sabine has been able to follow his creative process inside his studio for quite some time now.
Share
40:14
And so as they exchange these, I keep wanting to call them letters, as they exchange these postcards, they get to know each other, and you can see the level of intimacy increasing. And you get these beautiful illustrations like the one with the wine glass. It looks like a goldfish has just leapt straight through a glass and left it shattered. It's just beautiful.
Share
40:33
But they develop a friendship and then you hold your breath as you find out what's going to happen next, as they make plans to take it deeper and perhaps off the... postcard? How do we say that? But this is a small, I mean, it's just like 50 pages. And
Bantock
wrote follow ups that came out every few years until just in the late 2010s.Share
40:53
So you will be able to see more of their relationship continue. You get your answer to what happens next. But these are so easy to read so quickly. Life-affirming, surprising, slice of humanity, some humor, page turning... you can turn these pages so fast. Although I imagine you'll want to stare at the postcards for a good long while. I think this could be a lot of fun for you. What do you think?
Share
Joanne Booy
41:15
It sounds great! Yeah, reminds me a little bit, actually, of "The Wild Robot" by Peter Brown. Have you read that?
Share
Anne Bogel
41:23
No, but my kids love that series.
Share
Joanne Booy
41:25
Yeah, I mean all of the things that you've mentioned are kind of like that one too. And I think you know anything with beautiful illustrations and a great story I'm in for it. That sounds great.
Share
Anne Bogel
41:37
I'm so glad. I do want to be clear though. Don't read this year 5 year old. This is a picture book for grownups.
Share
Joanne Booy
41:43
Okay, got it.
Share
Anne Bogel
41:48
I want to try one. It's a past
Canada Reads
selection which makes me think the odds of you having read it are strong, but it's The Marrow Thieves
by Cherie Dimaline
.Share
Joanne Booy
41:57
I have not read it. I think that was done before I started reading all 5 on the short list.
Share
Anne Bogel
42:03
I am not sad to hear that.
Share
42:05
This came out in 2017. This book has elements of hope and joy and humor. But they are not the leading adjectives I would use to describe this book. This is by
Dimaline
, another indigenous writer. So this is sometimes called a clive high book as well. So this is why it's a dystopian story.Share
42:25
And it's about a group of young indigenous teenagers who are fleeing for their lives in what are often like heart stopping scenes in this fantasy and dystopian I think as I said world. They are sought after so that their dream-carrying bone marrow can be harvested and used for ill. So Frenchie has learned how to survive in the wild. And he is part of a band of teens who are attempting to move north in order to survive.
Share
42:55
But climate change has caused absolute chaos around the world. Collapse of civilization itself and also obviously the physical landscape. But they have to press on because they have to evade the recruiters who make your loved ones disappear forever.
Share
43:11
This is a rough story. These teenagers are not in a good place. And yet,
Dimaline
has spoken eloquently about how there is certainly light through the bleakness and the dystopian landscape she has created. And they're still a community and they're still teens who see themselves as the future. And they're still teens.Share
43:31
And it's also reading this book who can see themselves as part of the future we're creating together and of course the dreams are so symbolic in this book, I'll leave that to you to discover. But there is certainly hope throughout. And if you enjoy this,
Dimaline's
follow up "Empire of Wild" just came out in the fall, I haven't read my copy yet, it's on my bookshelf, but I'm really looking forward to it.Share
Joanne Booy
43:52
Ssounds great. I love YA and I love the idea of a Canadian book, you're recommending a Canadian book to me that I haven't read. That's amazing.
Share
Anne Bogel
44:03
I am thrilled to hear it. That was
The Marrow Thieves
by Cherie Dimaline
.Share
44:08
And now I'd like to try a book that I didn't envision talking about today, but I think could be a really good fit for you. Because, as you were describing "The Trouble with Goats and Sheep", that it is set in
England,
reminded you of your time in Eton
.Share
44:22
You described it as quirky and charming and funny and serious at the same time, and being very wise and life affirming. It made me wonder if you had read "Sorrow and Bliss" by Meg Mason.
Share
Joanne Booy
44:33
No, I have not.
Share
Anne Bogel
44:35
Okay, I am glad to hear it. It came out, I believe, in early 2021. It came out about a year ago. On the surface, it doesn't sound like this book would be anything other than emotionally crushing.
Share
44:47
This is the story of 40-year-old Martha. She talks about the time a bomb went off in her brain when she was a teenager. And ever since that time she's been coping with an unnamed mental illness and it appears with a... I can't remember if it's a blank line or if it's just called X in the novel, the illness is never named and if you read it and you think that's so interesting, I wonder why she made that choice.
Share
45:09
You can look up interviews with the author, Meg Mason and she speaks about it at length. It's extremely interesting. Martha is not necessarily an always likable protagonist. She completely lacks a filter.
Share
45:22
She can be cutting and super rude, just creating emotional havoc on those around her. But Mason really does a beautiful job in this book of avoiding a heavy tone and through Martha's perspective, just exploring the nuances of severe mental illness. And she gives you this interior perspective of how it might feel like to live within the grasp of one.
Share
45:44
So, the subject matter is often bleak, but Martha's inner narrative is so often just hilarious. Also, she has just a really spunky, saucy sister whose name is Ingrid and when they get together they are hysterical. I also really appreciated that the ending is really poignant and hopeful. It's a beautiful book. It's pink and red, it's really striking and it looks almost cheerful.
Share
46:10
It doesn't really indicate some of what can be really triggering content for some readers. So please be mindful, Joanne and everyone, when you pick this one up. But gems across all genres, quirky and charming, funny and serious at the same time, wise and life affirming, I think this could be a good selection for you. How does that sound?
Share
Joanne Booy
46:28
That sounds great. I actually like unlikeable characters and I'm okay with a little dark things shine through when there's a serious subject. And I think humor helps us to be able to tolerate dark subjects in a way.
Share
46:46
I think
Matt Haig
does that really well in his books. If we have a bit of humor, we can kind of take a distance in a way and it helps us keep things in perspective. So it sounds great.Share
Anne Bogel
46:57
Yes, I think the comparison to
Matt Haig
is a good one. I don't want to be too hard on our Martha though, she can certainly be unlikable. Like sometimes you go, "Martha, how could you?!" And you know, she's coping with this unnamed mental illness, but even though she can be, what she would describe as, "just awful" to those around her, your heart just goes out to her.Share
47:16
But that is not the core of her personality. So even though she doesn't always behave in unlikable ways, you are rooting for her in this book.
Share
Joanne Booy
47:24
That sounds great. I think Martha sounds like a character I might like to get to know.
Share
Anne Bogel
47:28
I hope so. Joanne, of the books we discussed, they were
Griffin And Sabine
by Nick Bantock
, The Marrow Thieves
by Cherie Dimaline
, and "Sorrow and Bliss" by Meg Mason. Of those books, what do you think you'll pick up next?Share
Joanne Booy
47:41
Well, they all sound great, but I think I might start with "Sorrow and Bliss".
Share
Anne Bogel
47:45
Well, I'm excited to hear it. I hope you feel a real connection with that story and I look forward to hearing how it goes for you.
Share
Joanne Booy
47:52
Great. Thanks, Anne.
Share
Anne Bogel
47:53
Oh Joanne, this has been a delight. Thank you so much for talking books with me today.
Share
Joanne Booy
47:56
Well, thank you. I really enjoyed it.
Share
Anne Bogel
48:04
Hey readers, I hope you enjoyed my discussion with Joanne and I'd love to hear what you think she should read next. Do that at whatshouldireadnextpodcast. com/324, where we'll also share the full list of titles we talked about today.
Share
48:16
Readers, Joanne and I chatted about how she keeps track of what she's reading and the book she's sending to her grandkids. And if you're looking for a system to keep track of your own reads, I've got a solution for you.
Share
48:26
I mentioned my new reading journal for kids earlier in the show. And my reading journal for adults is designed to support your reading adventures and help you discover something new about your own reading life, learn more at my website modernmrsdarcy. com.
Share
48:39
Keep up with the show with our weekly newsletter. Sign up at whatshouldireadnextpodcast. com/newsletter to make sure you never miss our news and never miss an episode.
Share
48:47
Make sure you're following us on instagram too. We are @whatshouldIreadnext. And see what I'm up to at annebogel. That is Anne with an E, B as in "books", O-G-E-L.
Share
48:57
Make sure you're following in Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, wherever you get your podcasts.
Share
49:03
We are taking a break next week. But we'll be back the first week of april, when I'm chatting with a reader embarking on a special new reading project and looking for some books that will break her out of her comfort zone.
Share
Break
Anne Bogel
49:21
That's it for this episode. Thanks so much for listening and as
Rainer Maria Rilke
said, "Ah, how good it is to be among people who are reading." Happy reading, everyone.Share
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Anne Bogel
Joanne Booy