Ep 322: The art of a great reading experience
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Today’s guest is an oil and watercolor painter with a deep appreciation for the storytelling power of both art and writing.
As a child, Gina Ariko Marioni discovered how language could help her better understand the world around her, and to this day, reading brings her joy.
But lately, Gina's been feeling stuck in her reading life. While she's used to reading a wide range of stories from coming-of-age tales to complex, multigenerational epics, in the past year or so she's found herself either reading extremely serious and weighty non-fiction or breezy, escapist, easy-to-read novels.
Today, Gina is asking Anne for some suggestions to broaden her reading palette. Listen in for recommendations for titles to fill in the gaps of Gina's reading life, and spark the feelings of surprise and delight she's seeking.
Learn more about Gina's art, leave your suggestions for what she should read next, and find the full list of titles discussed today over on our show notes page at whatshouldireadnextpodcast.com/322.
See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
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Anne Bogel
Gina Ariko Marioni
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Gina Ariko Marioni
00:00
She was one of the first writers to write books in the English language, like, for a younger audience. And so there was, like, these other components, obviously, I wanted to bring into it. And some of my classmates were like, "Why did you pick that? That's a kids' book". I could tell they were, like, not impressed with my topic.
Share
Anne Bogel
00:18
Hey readers, I'm Anne Bogel and this is "What Should I Read Next?", episode 322. Welcome to the show that's dedicated to answering the question that plagues every reader, "What should I read next?"
Share
00:29
We don't get bossy on the show. What we will do here is give you the information you need to choose your next read every week. We'll talk about all things, books and reading, and do a little literary matchmaking with one guest.
Share
Break
Anne Bogel
03:28
Today's guest has a deep appreciation for art as a way of telling a story, whether it's through the creativity of the written word or in her own career as an
oil
and watercolor painter
.Share
03:37
Growing up in an immigrant family, Gina Ariko Marioni had an early encounter with the limitations of language and came to love reading as a way of understanding more about the world around her.
Share
03:46
You'll often find her with a coming of age or a multi generational family story in her hands. Although, perhaps unsurprisingly, she also loves tales set in the world of art.
Share
03:56
But Gina's found that in recent years she's gotten unintentionally stuck between two reading extremes. Her selections bounced back and forth between extremely serious and weighty
nonfiction
and breezy escapist, easy to read novels.Share
04:09
And she's not happy about how much of the bookstore she's leaving undiscovered in the process. While she wants to keep both of these categories in her reading life, she's also missing the complex introspective stories she's enjoyed in the past and wants to expand the range of her reading to be less black and white.
Share
Speaker 3
04:26
Gina's here today for my help in finding new books to add to her palette. I've got ideas for stories that will invite her in and leave her with that sought after feeling of surprise and delight. Let's get to it. Gina, welcome to the show.
Share
Gina Ariko Marioni
04:39
Hi, Anne. Thank you so much for having me.
Share
Anne Bogel
04:41
Oh, it's my pleasure. I can't wait to talk books and you're reading life. Gina, what made you think coming in "What Should I Read Next?" could be a good time right now in your reading life?
Share
Gina Ariko Marioni
04:51
I read more books than I ever have last year - like, with a lot of people. The
pandemic
, I had more time at home than ever before and it was, like, a way to escape. When I was looking into this year, I want to be a little bit more selective with the books that I'm reading. I found that I kind of went into extremes with my reading life.Share
05:11
I would either choose books like these really heavy
nonfiction
books, educational and historical, and just these really big topics, and then I would swing to the other side. Like, I would read one of those... it would be, like, an emotional heavy read. And then I would lean towards, like, usually, like, a romance novel
or YA
, like, a really easy read, a light fiction
read.Share
05:36
And I'd read one or two of those and then pick up another, like, big heavy book. And there's not anything wrong with either of those categories. I really liked a lot of the books I read last year, but I feel like there's a hole in the middle.
Share
05:48
And I'm having trouble figuring out where exactly to look for them because I just keep going into really far on one side of spectrum and really far on the other with
nonfiction
.Share
Anne Bogel
05:58
Okay, so you're familiar with the... I'm picturing your books, like, weighted on a fulcrum. My physics vocab isn't so great. Is that accurate? Do you know? But the middle ground is not commonly traversed. Okay, I'm excited to dig in. First, tell me a little bit about what you do when you're not reading. You mentioned spending time at home, which, I imagine, hints it... employment in the before, outside the house.
Share
06:23
Yeah, I'm I'm watching
Station Eleven
, and so there's a lot of talk about "the before" and I thought, "Oh yes, that that sounds right right now."Share
Gina Ariko Marioni
06:31
Oh yeah, I'm a full-time working artist, so... And I work out of my home. I have, like, a studio that's just a spare room in my home. So yeah, I work mostly with
oil painting
and watercolors
.Share
Anne Bogel
06:42
You have to tell me more about your work. How did you get into that?
Share
Gina Ariko Marioni
06:45
I've always loved painting and, actually, same with reading. My childhood definitely was a lot of coloring in books. That's, like, all I wanted to do. My jii-chan and my o bāchan, my maternal grandparents, they're both professional artists in Japan.
Share
07:03
My mom is an immigrant from Japan and so I was really fortunate growing up. I got to spend, like, every other summer in their house and in their studio, and so really, I just was, like, around their artwork. I thought their paintings were so cool and beautiful, I was like, "I want to be an artist, I want to be like them."
Share
07:20
So that had a big influence on me. And then, when I got to college, I started double major in English and in studio art. Definitely continued the trend of loving books and art. There is such a big language barrier between me and a lot of my relatives, my Japanese language skills are pretty weak.
Share
07:38
A lot of my relatives do not speak fluent English, like my grandparents didn't really speak any English. And so, I was aware, from a very early age, of the limitations of language, as much as I was really fascinated by and loved reading books. I kind of saw that overlap, and where one left off and the other picked up.
Share
07:58
And so, one reason I also really leaned into art other than just, "It's pretty and it's fun and I liked making pictures as a kid". Particularly when I was with my grandparents, it felt like where the language barrier meets my being interested in art and my being able to paint alongside them, and show them my artwork and look at theirs seemed like it picked up kind of where that left off. And it made me feel like I'm in this family too. And it was a way to, like, express between each other, where the language kind of left off.
Share
Anne Bogel
08:27
How amazing to come from a family of working artists. Did that make it easier to envision that it could actually be done? Because, I know, that's not the message given to many younger students interested in pursuing that professionally.
Share
Speaker 4
08:38
Yes, it totally did. I always had that in the back of my mind, and I went to school in the
Bay Area
, so a lot of, like, tech and business students. And kind of like, "What am I doing here?" Like, art department, like, everyone was talking about, like, their internships and stuff and I was like...Share
Anne Bogel
08:54
This sweet little art student who thinks she can make it in the world.
Share
Gina Ariko Marioni
08:57
But then yeah, in the back of my mind, like, "Jiji and baba did it", like, I know it's possible. I know there are people out there who are working artists.
Share
Anne Bogel
09:04
What medium do you work in?
Share
Speaker 4
09:05
I work mostly in
oil painting
and just in the last year I've started getting really into watercolors
also and that's been really fun.Share
Anne Bogel
09:12
Listeners, we will put links to Gina's work in our show notes, so you can check it out with your eyes and not listen to us describe it.
Share
09:20
Gina, you mentioned the limitations of language and how that's really fueled your interest in creating art yourself. I'd love to hear more about the intersection of your reading life and art in your life.
Share
Gina Ariko Marioni
09:29
I love reading books that have either literal art or artists in it. Like
art history
books on the nonfiction
side, like biographies. I love Van Gogh's letters
, there's other artists, but he's probably the most famous one. People who aren't interested directly in our history.Share
09:47
He was a very prolific writer. He wrote tons of letters to his brother and his friends, and we have those. So I love stuff like that. But even books that are not so on the nose about art.
Share
Anne Bogel
09:58
So when it comes up in your work, or when it comes up in your reading, that makes you happy.
Share
Gina Ariko Marioni
10:02
Oh yeah. And just in a bigger picture, books that maybe just, like, inspire creativity. Or I really like coming of age stories, and I think that's kind of... for the same reason, like, figuring out who you are, what you want to say about yourself.
Share
10:15
Like, that also ties in, it's to... how I think about what I'm trying to do when I'm in front of a canvas or reading a book, I feel like that translates, too. So I think that's why I tend to grab, I said at the top, like, I read a lot of
YA
books, I think that's part of why I'm drawn in that direction also.Share
Anne Bogel
10:31
So I know we're going to get into the polarity you see there, but Gina, you said on your submission form, and that's the one that whatshouldireadnextpodcast. com/guest that you see both books and art as a form of storytelling. I would love to hear more about that.
Share
Gina Ariko Marioni
10:47
Yeah, I do see both as a form of storytelling and communication.
Share
10:52
It is funny. I have a very bizarre distinct memory. One of the trips we went when I was probably around 10 years old. I was doing some, like, errand running with my mom. So we were in, like, the city square. Basically, realizing that I'm illiterate in Japan. I think we were, like, on a city bus, and I was just kind of staring out the window. And usually back home, you know, like, reading billboards just to pass the time and stuff.
Share
Speaker 4
11:16
It occurred to me, not only can I not read anything, but it's like a different alphabet, like Japanese alphabets based on Chinese characters. So it's not even, like, letters, I can't see, let alone words I can't read. And it was kind of a jarring experience. I kind of went through the rest of our outing looking at the grocery store, like, I can't read any of the labels on the food, I can't read anything. And had a feeling of like, oh, this is what it feels like if you're illiterate.
Share
Speaker 3
11:41
Which is probably an experience that you may not remember having at any point in the country grew up in. And how old were you when that happened?
Share
Gina Ariko Marioni
11:50
I was probably around ten.
Share
Speaker 4
11:51
What did you like to read when you were a kid?
Share
11:53
I read so much when I was a kid. I know this probably no surprise. I loved books with precocious independent girls, "Mandy" by Julie Andrews,
Secret Garden
, Ann Of Green Gables
, Little Women
. I loved Jo March, she's probably my favorite, Elizabeth Bennet
, too.Share
Anne Bogel
12:14
I'm glad to hear that. And what about now, what do you tend to pick up these days?
Share
Gina Ariko Marioni
12:17
I mean, I read all kinds of stuff, like I said,
fiction
and nonfiction,
in light and heavy. But I'm trying to be more intentional reading contemporary underrepresented authors as well the last several years. I'm really happy I'm back in reading shape, and, like, really enjoying reading for its own sake.Share
12:40
Like, I've always loved art and books and everything, but the couple of years - and I don't know if other people on your show had this experience - but especially as an English major, the couple years right after school, I barely read at all. I think I got a little bit burnt out of being, like, assigned reading.
Share
Speaker 4
12:57
Also, for me, I had kind of an experience of, I think when I look back on it, feeling like, a little bit of, like, judgment and snobbery built into. Like, you have to like this type of book. Some of the seminars, especially near the end of my time at school, I felt judged if I talked about, like, if I admitted I liked other books. Even the book I ended up writing my senior thesis largely around,
The Secret Garden
, and that is a children's book.Share
Gina Ariko Marioni
13:23
But my topic was on, like, the transcendental themes that the book used from, like, the generation or two before the time the book was written. It was written in the 1910 or something, I can't remember exactly, but the early 1900s, the emergence of
children's literature
. She was one of the first writers to write books in the English language, like, for a younger audience.Share
13:44
And so there was, like, these other components, obviously I wanted to bring into it and some of my classmates, like, "Why did you pick that? That's, it's a kids book."
Share
Speaker 4
13:52
I could tell, they were, like, not impressed with my topic. And, kind of like looking down on me for it, and I was, like, okay, well, I think there's interesting things here to look at and just because it has a younger audience doesn't mean it's not interesting or not worth looking at.
Share
Anne Bogel
14:06
She was a pioneer, by golly. I mean, come on. How did it turn out, that project?
Share
Gina Ariko Marioni
14:11
I got an A on my thesis, it was good, but just stuff like that. And honestly, I had it on the art side, too. But it took me a little while and really a couple of years after that to kind of figure out, like, when every book I'm reading is not either assigned to me or something that I have to propose in front of my, like, classmates. What stuff do I like to read? What kind of art do I like to look at and make?
Share
Anne Bogel
14:39
I mean, you know, this, it's definitely not just you. I think it's something that a lot of graduates from, from whatever, whatever it is they're graduating from, don't realize that they're walking off a cliff in a way. That all of a sudden, they're about to have total control of their own reading life, without even really thinking about the fact that someone else - I mean, if you're a student - has always been telling you what to read.
Share
15:04
Maybe not exclusively been telling you what to read, but then you reach this point in your life where, if somebody's not telling you what to read, then maybe you're not reading. And that takes a lot of people by surprise.
Share
Gina Ariko Marioni
15:13
It took me by surprise. Like, definitely, the year after school, I don't know if I read a single book. It was also, like, I was transitioning to, like, my first nine-to-five job and stuff. But I do specifically remember at some point being like, "Wow, I used to read so much, I'm not reading anymore."
Share
15:27
I'd never had the experience or feel like I had to make myself read or be like, "What book am I going to read now?" because I didn't have anything lined up.
Share
Anne Bogel
15:34
Okay. But you did it because we're talking about your reading life here today. Gina, you said it's real easy for you to go to places with your books. Would you tell me more about that?
Share
Gina Ariko Marioni
15:45
Especially this last couple of years where we were in lockdown and stuff. I find that I will gravitate toward
nonfiction
and I'll get hooked on a certain topic and then want to read, like, a whole bunch more books about that. It'll kind of take over my reading life for a couple of months. And let me see, recent ones were, like, I read a bunch of books on, like, the food industry and, like, chef memoirs.Share
16:07
Once I read one that interested me, I want to know more about this and I'll find, like, five more books on that topic. I read early in the
pandemic
. I read a bunch of, like, Founding Fathers' biographies, which I had never particularly had an interest in, or thought I did. But I read one and then I was like, "Well, I need to know more now", and read, like, four more.Share
Anne Bogel
16:26
What was the one that set you down that path? Do you remember?
Share
Gina Ariko Marioni
16:29
It was
Alexander
Hamilton's
, the one Hamilton
, the musical.Share
Anne Bogel
16:33
Like the "Turnout" one?
Share
Gina Ariko Marioni
16:34
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Share
Anne Bogel
16:35
Okay, so 1000 pages wasn't enough, you had to keep going.
Share
Gina Ariko Marioni
16:38
I know, that one was so big, too. Oh, the other one was... I read a bunch of, like, I escaped a cult genre of memoir and those were just so fascinating. But again, they're heavy to read. They're heavy reads. At the time, I was, like, okay, I'm, like, full of reading these.
Share
16:56
I don't have a big appetite to read something that I know is going to take a lot out of me again. And so it's just kind of easy to go back toward
YA
or romance novels
. I read a lot of romance novels
last year. I didn't really start reading romance novels
until the pandemic
either. These are delightful.Share
17:15
So I kind of swing fully the other way in, and I don't want to be bashing on that genre at all. I've really enjoyed reading them, but I think it's kind of left a gap in the middle, and I know that there's so much more good
fiction
out there. And when I do come across it, usually because other bookish friends of mine will be, like, "Have you read this yet?"Share
17:36
I didn't know where to find it. Or I feel like there's this whole, like, middle ground, especially for
fiction
that I'm not aware of, and I think I'm just not really looking for it, because in my mind I'll only turn to fiction
when I already feeling a little bit, like, full, and so I just, like, swing far to the other side.Share
Anne Bogel
17:55
So you've got a pendulum going. So you're going between... You're rotating
nonfiction
topics, the ones you get hooked on. Like you really enjoyed the experience. But then it sounds like you feel like you need a break from topics that can tend to be heavy and serious and pretty academic, which you really enjoy, but you can feel like you're ready to swing to the other side and take a break and have an escapist reading experience.Share
18:18
And so that's when you go to
romance
or I think YA
you mentioned earlier, so in fiction
, those are the genre's your most acquainted with and those are the books, you know how to find for yourself.Share
18:27
But you know, there's more and you'd like to explore it.
Share
Gina Ariko Marioni
18:29
Yeah.
Share
Anne Bogel
18:30
Okay. It sounds like you spend a lot of energy finding great
nonfiction
and exploring, I imagine you enjoy that process and we just want to learn how to do that in fiction
as well.Share
18:40
But I imagine it can be really overwhelming because, you know, you know the genres and I imagine you have a fair amount of experience in choosing the books. And you know, kind of what catches your eye and you've worked out for you, like what's been a great reading experience, what hasn't. That's guiding you now, but you haven't done in other genres.
Share
Gina Ariko Marioni
18:55
Yeah. And I think now that we're talking about it too, it's easier to do for
nonfiction
. I think I get stuck also because, like, if I read one Founding Fathers' biography for example or something, especially in, like, more niche areas, like, authors will reference other books or other people on that subject, and it's easier to find what to read next if I'm interested in that.Share
19:17
I can very easily find other books that I know for sure will overlap with the one I just read, and will continue on. When I find a really good
fiction
book that I like, unless the author wrote multiple books or something, there's not, like, a built-in way to find other books that feel like that one. Books set in the same time period or on the same theme could be totally, totally different.Share
Anne Bogel
19:42
I mean, I think that's absolutely right, that it's easier to find
nonfiction
than fiction
for that reason you said. If you love a Founding Father biography and you want to read more, you look for more Founding Fathers' biographies. But so many search algorithms work exactly the same way for fiction
.Share
19:57
If you love a book about two sisters set against a backdrop of war in the 1860s and you start looking for similar recommendations, like, that's what you get. But that's not what you want. You want a feeling or an exploration of themes or even more.
Share
20:12
Like, I mean, on "What Should I Read Next?" readers' favorite books are often those that just surprise and delight them. And it's really hard to search by the filter of surprise and delight.
Share
20:22
Okay, well I'm glad you're here today, Gina, I can't wait to hear more about
fiction
picks that are squarely lined up with your interest in theme and setting and the kind of tone you enjoy in your reading. What that looks like for you as we step outside the genres that you enjoy but know really well and just want to explore a little bit further.Share
20:45
I'm not saying we have to totally, like, step outside your comfort zone and we're probably going to focus on
fiction
just because you do have an easier time finding nonfiction
you love. But that's just my working theory. We'll see where this takes us. And you know what we're going to do to find out what you may enjoy reading next? And that is dig into your reading life.Share
Break
Anne Bogel
22:46
You know how this works. You're going to tell me three books you love, one book you don't, and what you've been reading lately. And we'll talk about finding some middle ground. Sounds like a compromise. We don't mean that at all. But we'll talk about the new territory you may enjoy exploring. Gina, how did you choose these books?
Share
Gina Ariko Marioni
23:01
Felix Ever After
by Kasen Callender. So that's fiction
. The other two are nonfiction
.Share
Anne Bogel
23:07
Interesting...
Share
Gina Ariko Marioni
23:09
Like we said earlier. I can't remember how it came on my radar. But this was definitely one of those books that surprised and delighted me. And it checks a lot of boxes of what we were saying earlier, it's a
YA
coming of age story. So Felix is 17, in New York City, he's black and trans
and queer
. When you're introduced to the book, it's his last summer of high school.Share
23:36
He's, like, preparing to apply for colleges. He's still trying to figure out his, like, gender and sexuality, and just general "who likes me, who doesn't like me", like, with his classmates and stuff. And then also he's applying, he wants to be an artist. And so he's in this, like, fancy summer arts program, putting together a portfolio to apply for college.
Share
23:57
And so, like, a surface level, the literal artist stuff was fun. And and he's in this program with other kids, and so, like, hearing his process of figuring out the art he wants to put together for his portfolio and, like, kind of comparing it to some of his classmates, the art that they're making, that was like a fun plotline.
Share
24:15
But underneath that, it just really tugged at my heartstrings. It was such a sweet book, he was such a vulnerable character. It's also, like, him falling in love for the first time. It was so sweet, and there was so much heart in the book, that's what really drew me in.
Share
24:31
I loved that this was a contemporary author and, like, an underrepresented author, the writer
Kacen Callender
, they are non-binary and black.Share
Anne Bogel
24:41
Alright, so this ticks a lot of your boxes. So the grappling with identity, that, you know, the coming of age, figuring out who you are, what you want to say. And also the actual art on the page was kind of a fun bonus. Okay,
Felix Ever After
by Kacen Callender
. Gina, that was your one fiction
pick. Tell us about another book you love.Share
Gina Ariko Marioni
24:59
So the next one I picked is by
Ross King
. It's called "The Judgment of Paris". And I'm a huge Ross King
fan, I've read a lot of his books. If you're not familiar, he writes basically art history
. This one in particular, "Judgment of Paris" is a nonfiction
book about this sociopolitical climate in Paris in the early 1800s that birthed the Impressionism
movement, basically.Share
25:24
So all the big names in
Impressionism
like Manet
and Monet
, Cezanne
, Renoir
, Degas
, those guys all knew each other in real life. It was, like, a relatively small arts scene at the time, was like pretty controversial, very different from, like, the style of art that was presented beforehand. It was a whole thing. And so there's a couple reasons why I picked this book.Share
25:48
Obviously, there's, like, the
art history
component. Ross King
, like I said, I could have picked a couple other of his books, too. He's a really entertaining writer. The reason why I chose one of his books in the first place is because it's hard to find art history
that doesn't feel academic. That doesn't feel like you're reading a textbook.Share
26:10
He is a really good
nonfiction
writer. I don't know how he does it. He's got a great way of finding narratives to the story he's telling and picking out the right quotes from people and putting in the right anecdotes to where it's entertaining, entertaining to read. And you happen to be learning about a niche subject. He's great.Share
26:29
And this book in particular, even if you're not an art historian or think you're that interested in art, I think
Impressionism
is so ubiquitous. Like everyone's kind of familiar with that style of art. It's by far probably the most popular still. It's been like 150 years later, but kind of taken for granted. Like, why does everyone recognize the style of painting? How did it get to be so famous?Share
Speaker 4
26:51
Almost kind of The Beatles or something. So it's kind of interesting to go back and learn about where it came from, how it was received at the time it was introduced. So I found it to just be, like, a really fun book. And I think even if you're not specifically interested in
art history
, it's entertaining and it happens to be about art history
.Share
Anne Bogel
27:12
Yeah, that's a great description. Have you read any of his novels?
Share
Gina Ariko Marioni
27:15
No.
Share
Anne Bogel
27:16
Okay, you know, more about
Ross King
than I do. But I believe that he's of late specialized more, maybe exclusively, on the Nonfiction
. But he has some novels that might be 20 years old, and this...Share
Gina Ariko Marioni
27:28
That is ringing a bell, but I haven't actually looked at them.
Share
Anne Bogel
27:31
You could read them and see what you think. You could decide if he actually now has found the genre he belongs in, or if you would like him to write another one for you today. I just thought that might be fun to explore.
Share
Gina Ariko Marioni
27:42
I totally forgot about that.
Share
Speaker 3
27:43
Well that's why we're talking. Okay, so that was "The Judgment Of Paris" by
Ross King
. What did you choose as your final favorite book?Share
Gina Ariko Marioni
27:51
Yeah, I chose
Crying In H Mart
by Michelle Zauner,
and I heard about this book on your show.Share
Anne Bogel
27:58
I'm so glad to hear it. So you know how I feel about it.
Share
Gina Ariko Marioni
28:01
Yeah. And this one came out last year, when you recommended it on one of your earlier episodes. I don't even know if it was actually out yet.
Share
Anne Bogel
28:08
Oh so you had to wait for it.
Share
Gina Ariko Marioni
28:10
Yeah. I loved this book. My whole family now loves this book.
Michelle Zauner
, she's half korean on her mom's side. Her mom is, like, an immigrant from South Korea
and then her dad is white. She grew up in America. It's a book about grief.Share
28:26
Her mom dying of cancer when
Michelle's
in her mid twenties. That experience of watching her mom kind of slip away, and then once her mom is gone. It's called Crying In H Mart
- H Mart
is, like, an Asian grocery store. And so a lot of the book is around the author turning to Korean food and, like, recipes that remind her of home, to kind of bring her that comfort in the smells of the food cooking in the kitchen. Like when she was a little girl, and her mom making these foods for her.Share
28:55
So I was going to say that she writes very plainly, and I mean that in the best way. It's- she just kind of puts it all out there on the page. It's vulnerable, open, direct way of explaining these really complicated feelings that she's going through.
Share
29:11
And it mirrors my family.
Michelle's
relationship with her position in her family mirrors mine. And so, coincidentally, my family has a food blog that my mom started. And it's kind of for the reason why Michelle...
Like, it's called Crying In H Mart
because she's at the grocery store, and she starts crying because she can't remember what exactly, what ingredients she's supposed to use.Share
29:36
My mom had a feeling that something like that would happen to us, like, years ago. And so she transcribed some of the recipes she had from my grandma and my great aunts, like, family recipes. For whatever reason at the time, she was like, "What if something happens to me? You guys are not going to have these recipes when they're in Japanese."
Share
29:54
And also she translated them to English. And then she also put notes or put adaptations for, like, if you're making them in America, and you need to get the ingredients in America, like, what you need to do. And that's been a family project for, like, years now.
Share
Anne Bogel
30:09
Oh, that's so fun.
Share
Gina Ariko Marioni
30:10
It started off just with the handful of recipes she had. Like, my great-aunt used to own a ramen shop in Japan, and my mom's childhood recipes from her mom, and now it's just like this big collection of all of our friends and family recipes. For a lot of immigrant families or children of immigrants, food is the most immediate way to bring that sense of comfort in home and familiarity back.
Share
30:35
That is certainly true in my case, in my family's case, but it also stood out to me,
Know My Name
, Chanel Miller's
book, she's also like half Chinese and half white. I read that book last year, and there was a scene when she was really upset, and she just walked to the grocery store - and next thing she knew, in her kitchen she was making dumplings. And I totally recognized that, like, I do that, too.Share
31:00
The Presidential Election
week, I was so stressed, like, what's going to happen before we knew the results? And I made like 200 gyoza. Like, I just bought a bunch of ingredients for Japanese dumplings.Share
31:12
I know I'm starting to get a little bit off topic here, but I would say, it just, it really struck a chord for me. I shared it with my mom and my sister. I was like, "You guys got to read this book." My mom read
Crying In H Mart
and as soon as she finished it, she texted me, she was like, "I'm starting it again", and she read it twice in a row, she finished it and then she read it back again.Share
Anne Bogel
31:32
Oh that really says a lot about what that book meant to her. All right, that was
Crying In H Mart
by Michelle Zauner
. Gina, tell me about a book that wasn't right for you.Share
Gina Ariko Marioni
31:40
I had a hard time thinking of a book that was like, oh, squarely was not for me, or I didn't like. So the one I picked is
The Kiss Quotient
by Helen Hoang
. And yeah, so this is a romance novel.
Share
31:53
When I started sharing more that I was reading
romance novels
, I connected with a couple other girlfriends who were like, "Oh my gosh, me too!" And it was kind of fun. I think a lot of readers, there's still kind of, like, stigma on it, or people are embarrassed, but started sharing some.Share
32:10
And this title in particular, multiple people were like, "Well, have you read
The Kiss Quotient
yet?" Like, "Oh, that's a great one." And so I got multiple recommendations for it, and I don't know why, it just didn't, I didn't relate to the main character, like, at all. It just didn't click for me, and I was kind of disappointed just that it didn't land.Share
32:29
I was like, "Oh..." I also felt bad because it seems to be like everyone else liked it, and just for whatever reason it didn't click for me. And it does check boxes, and I'm not surprised my friends recommended it. It has an Asian American lead woman, it's on the empowering, uplifting side.
Share
32:49
I mean,
romance
is also a lot of, it is just kind of subjective, it just didn't do it for me, I just couldn't really relate to her. I don't think I finished this one, I read probably like 3/4 of the way through or something, but then I was like, "I'm really like forcing myself to keep reading this and I don't need to finish it."Share
Anne Bogel
33:06
You said something about not connecting with the main character. Is that something you like to do when you're reading in the genre?
Share
Gina Ariko Marioni
33:11
Yeah, I suppose so. Well, this is interesting now that we're talking about it, because I think, like I said, the coming of age or deep introspection work that happens even in a lighter genre, like, a lot of
YA
books are, they're lighter reads, but the turmoil the protagonist is going through, or they're really digging into, you know, "Who am I?" Like, "How do I feel about this?"Share
33:32
In, with my memory of reading
Kiss Quotient
was totally opposite from what I usually like when I turned to those genres, I think.Share
Anne Bogel
33:40
And you really enjoy, like, an introspective exploration. I also wonder if this might have been more accessible for you, if you hadn't been told over and over again that it was, like, right up your alley and exactly what you love. I wonder if expectations have been set a little bit differently, if you might have felt differently about the book?
Share
Gina Ariko Marioni
33:59
Probably.
Share
Anne Bogel
34:01
So that's
The Kiss Quotient
by Helen Hoang
. Gina, what are you reading now?Share
Gina Ariko Marioni
34:06
I just finished
Midnight Library
earlier this week by Matt Haig
, I think. And that's a fiction
book. I really liked that one. I also recently read "The Guncle" by Steven Rowley, I think I really loved that one. Also there's like a goofiness to the plot but they're also dealing with grief.Share
34:27
I cried at the end, which took me by surprise because the first half of the book, there's a lot of humor. The emotional pull at the end, it took me by surprise, but, like, in the best way. I really enjoyed reading that one. And then on the
nonfiction
side, let's see, I read "For Small Creatures Such As We" by Sasha Sagan, who's Carl Sagan's daughter.Share
34:48
That was a beautiful book. I really enjoyed that one. And "Cultish" by
Amanda Montell
. The full title's "Cultish: The Language of Fanaticism", and that was a super interesting book. She just announced a week ago that her next book is picked up underway. So I'm super excited. I'm super excited for that.Share
Anne Bogel
35:10
Gina, I've got some ideas. But tell me, what are you looking for in your reading life right now? Tell me more about operating in your either or approach to
fiction
. I mean, I think what we're looking for is that interesting, deeply compelling contemporary fiction
that you know is out there, that you stumble upon occasionally, but not something you gravitate towards.Share
35:31
Although, you know, something I didn't say, though, is
The Midnight Library
and "The Guncle", were not two books I expected you to mention, based on what you said you typically read. Is that, does that represent an attempt to branch out?Share
Gina Ariko Marioni
35:41
Yeah, so like reading lately, I've been actively trying to introduce some more balance. And I've been really happy so far with, like, I really like both of those
fiction
books. I'm definitely looking for fiction
. I think I just need more help in that area.Share
35:56
I just love the feeling of being pulled into a good
fiction
book. You know, that's just more of a variable that's hard to pin down when you're searching in the fiction
sectionShare
Break
Anne Bogel
36:57
So we're basing this on the books you loved, which were
Felix Ever After
by Kacen Callender
, "The Judgment Of Paris" by Ross King
and Crying In H Mart
by Michelle Zauner
. Not for you, The Kiss Quotient
by Helen Hoang,
and we talked a little bit about why that might be.Share
37:15
You know, this is always tricky for me. I feel like I'm always telling guests like, "Don't get nervous, you'll be fine, you'll be fine." But I have to recommend books that you might like at the end. But I feel good about this one because it doesn't come out until April, so I don't think you will have found it yet, and it's right up your alley.
Share
37:30
Oh, and listeners, just a note. It doesn't come out until April right now. But again, supply chain issues mean that updates are once again changing with great rapidity. So hold that loosely. But the book I have in mind for you is "
Memphis
" by Tara Stringfellow. I do feel I should ask, is this on your radar? Is that one you know?Share
Gina Ariko Marioni
37:46
No, I haven't heard of it.
Share
Anne Bogel
37:47
Well, this is new contemporary
fiction
. You might, this might be slotted as literary fiction
. It's definitely finely crafted. This is a new work. This book has a deeply compelling plot, interesting story, family saga. There's a strong coming of age thread.Share
38:05
Young black girl in
Memphis
dreams of being an artist. So you have this family line. And Stringfellow's family was her inspiration for this story. Her grandfather was a World War II veteran, came back to Memphis
, Tennessee and was the first black homicide detective in that city. Her grandmother was one of the very first black nurses in Memphis
.Share
38:29
The editor of this book describes this as the dual inheritance of injustice and excellence that came from her family. So this is the story of one American family. But also I read the e-galley that has the editor's letter in the front, and she says that this is also the black fairytale that Tara grew up wanting to read.
Share
38:47
So it tracks three generations of women set in this historic city. I don't know if you've been to
Memphis
. But I think you'll feel like you have after reading this. At least the Memphis
from, like, the 1950s to about 2002.Share
39:01
This young woman, the third generation in this family of strong black women, has to decide if she's going to let this history of vengeance in her family in her own life, going back to when she was very young, define her, or if it's going to be love and her work and her hope for the future.
Share
39:19
There are hard things in this book. So readers, do check out that content warning if you might remotely be a sensitive reader. But there is so much here from, like, interesting tidbits about the histories, and the cars, and the buildings.
Share
39:34
There's one mention that had me running to Google. Two characters were born the year of the bird flu pandemic,'57. And I was like, "Is that real?" And then there's some civil rights events that happened in the city, where I wanted to see, like, how closely is that? Which person are they talking about?
Share
39:48
There's a wonderful neighbor character. Some of the supporting characters who know and interact with this family are just phenomenal.
Share
Gina Ariko Marioni
39:55
That sounds amazing.
Share
Anne Bogel
39:57
I'm so glad!
Share
Gina Ariko Marioni
39:58
I do love multigenerational family story, too. And that aspect also really appeals to me. And I think having family kind of spread out around the world, I did think a lot about like... "Legacy" is kind of a heavy word, but like, where did I come from? And like, how did my family? I'm just very interested in that. And I love those kind of books like
Pachinko
.Share
Anne Bogel
40:21
I'm so glad to hear it. I hope you enjoy it. Okay, next, we have a historical novel. I'm glad you said
Pachinko
, because we're going back in time. That makes me think you're willing to do it. The book I have in mind is "Fifty Words for Rain" by Asha Lemmie. This is the debut, it came out three-ish years ago.Share
40:40
It's set in
Kyoto
in 1948. It's about a young girl who was the daughter of an upper class Japanese woman and an African American G. I. who was there overseas for the war. So in the opening pages, this young girl, her name is Nori, her mother has had enough of trying to make a life and care for her daughter, it is not working out.Share
41:03
So what she does is she drops her at her aristocratic grandparents' doorstep with a small suitcase and a note. And this young girl has never met these grandparents, but it is time for this girl to be taken care of.
Share
41:14
And so her mother does the only thing she knows to do and that is put her literally on their doorstep. And they're not real keen on this idea, that grandparents, because to them, this daughter is born of a shameful match. She was born out of wedlock, and the way they treat her is just appalling.
Share
41:32
She's rearely even allowed out of her room, that's how they care for her. But then one day, her half brother comes to live on their estate. And being just a kid, he shows her the famous glimmer of love and compassion and friendship.
Share
41:44
And her isolated world - not the world her mother imagined that she was dropping her into - just begins to crack open a little bit, and she begins to experience a more connected, fulfilling life through her brother, who brings good things into her life. But there are still plenty of complications that make for plenty of plot developments.
Share
42:07
So this is definitely a book that has its elements of heartbreak, it's obviously difficult to read about terrible things happening to children. There's so much life, love - ernest and also misdirected. And just so many fascinating explorations of themes of family and culture, and what happens when these two elements come together.
Share
42:26
I think there's a lot there you would find really interesting. Hopefully, it has the appeal and the exploration of fascinating topics in it that you really love in your
nonfiction
, but through the lens of a story. How does that sound to you?Share
Gina Ariko Marioni
42:39
Oh, I love that. As we were describing it, it's reminding me... My friend, she's mixed white and Filipino, she's told me about this book. So I have heard of it, but I haven't read it yet and I didn't know, like, the back story of it and I'm glad it came back up because I kind of forgot about it.
Share
Anne Bogel
42:57
All right, well thank you, friend, for planting the seed.
Share
42:60
Yeah.
Share
43:01
I'm thinking about going
YA
and arts and graphic memoir
for your third. What do you think?Share
Gina Ariko Marioni
43:07
Okay, I'm really excited. Also, I've only read a couple graphic, I just read
Can't We Talk About Something More Pleasant?
But I've only read a couple books like that, and I really liked that one, and it's also just an area I don't, I'm not very familiar with.Share
Anne Bogel
43:23
Well let's branch out. The one I have in mind for you is "Almost American Girl" by Robin Ha. This is a
graphic memoir
and a coming of age story. I'm glad you said you like those. That must have planted a seed in my brain.Share
43:35
So this is about a young girl, she is 14, her name is Chuna. She is raised by a single mother in
South Korea
and then one day her mother says, "We're going on a trip, we're going outside of Korea", which is something that they do regularly together. They travel - I think it's once a year - to a country outside Korea to a vacation.Share
43:53
So it's not that weird that they're going to Huntsville, Alabama. They have certainly traveled far and wide before, and her mom says, "You know, we're going for a trip. If it goes well, we might be gone a long time" - and that is how she ends up moving to Alabama when her mom gets married to a Korean man living there. She gets picked up at the airport and he's like, "Come meet the family", and I was like, "What?"
Share
44:16
That is the beginning of her as a 14 year old in the'90s, moving all at once in one swoop, without even realizing it's happening, from Korea to America. And Ha says that was probably the most difficult time of her life, and everything changed completely after that year.
Share
44:32
And in this
graphic memoir
, she's writing about how she managed to come through that experience - those formative years with a new country, a new home, a new instant family with a step dad and step siblings, about her age and a new identity of being a Korean American.Share
44:51
She said in interviews that now she loves and embraces, but that's a lot for a 14-year-old. In this
graphic memoir
, something else we see is the way that art and comics
really ground her. When she was living in Korea, she read Korean comics
and also she loved manga
, the Japanese comics.
And when she moved to the States
, manga
was just becoming popular, and a lot of kids were coming into it, and it was the only thing that she felt like she had in common, that she could actually talk about with these American teenagers.Share
45:21
And in the pages of the
graphic memoir
, she talks about, "How amazing that I came from halfway around the world, and they've been here the whole time, and we both love this same thing." You see her grow up and become an artist and go to art school. The book ends with her moving to the D. C. area for her next step in education. Really figuring out, all of a sudden, like, "Whoa, where am I, who am I who do I want to be?" in a really interesting way that you see explored here.Share
45:49
You get to see her find her way as an artist. I'm excited to hear that you haven't read much in this format because we're hopefully trying new things today, and I hope you maybe like the sound of trying this one. What do you think?
Share
Gina Ariko Marioni
46:01
Yes. Oh my gosh, I love the sound of all of these. I'm so thrilled, and that last one, too. I mean, I'm really excited by all three of them
Share
Anne Bogel
46:11
Of the books we talked about today, "Memphis" by Tara Stringfellow, "Fifty Words for Rain" by Asha Lemmie and "Almost American Girl" by Robin Ha... Of those books - I know that one of them doesn't come out till April - but what sounds good? What do you think you'll read next?
Share
Gina Ariko Marioni
46:26
I think I'm going to look for "Almost American Girl" just because I can find that one now. Oh man, I'm so excited. These are great.
Share
Anne Bogel
46:34
I'm so glad to hear it. Gina, I enjoyed this so much. Thank you for talking books with me today.
Share
Gina Ariko Marioni
46:39
Thank you for having me. This was wonderful.
Share
Anne Bogel
46:46
Hey readers, I hope you enjoyed my discussion with Gina, and I'd love to hear what you think she should read next. See what Gina is reading and painting by following her on Instagram at Gina Ariko, that's G-I-N-A A-R-I-K-O. And on her website ginaariko. com.
Share
47:02
Find that full list of titles we talked about today at whatshouldIreadnextpodcast. com/322. If our show is on your weekly must-listen list, thank you. Please share it with a friend.
Share
47:13
We recently posted a fun template to our Instagram highlights. We're there @whatshouldIreadnext. Just fill that out to share your favorite episode of our show, where you listen to the podcast, and more about your reading life. We'd love to see your replies. Be sure to tag us and your favorite reading buddies in your story.
Share
47:29
Help others find our show by leaving a review on
Apple Podcasts
. Make sure you're on our email list to get weekly updates on the show and the wider reading world. Sign up at whatshouldIreadnextpodcast. com/newsletter.Share
47:42
Make sure you're following along in
Apple Podcasts
, Spotify
, Overcast
- wherever you get your podcasts. Tune in next week when I'll be talking with a guest who's looking to sleuth out some stellar mystery recommendations.Share
47:54
Thanks to the people who make this show happen. "What Should I Read Next?" is produced by Brenna Frederick with sound design by Kellen Pechacek. Readers, that's it for this episode. Thanks so much for listening.
Share
48:04
And as
Rainer Maria Rilke
said, "Ah, how good it is to be among people who are reading." Happy reading everyone!Share
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Gina Ariko Marioni
Anne Bogel