Friday, Mar 18, 2022 • 28min
Episode 2: Meet The DeFeos
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As the community reels from the shocking DeFeo murders, residents pack an Amityville church to mourn the loss of the family. Host Donnie Wahlberg dives deep into DeFeo history, only to find out that this picture-perfect family had very violent secrets. To learn more about how HLN protects listener privacy, visit cnn.com/privacy cnn.com/privacy
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Donnie Wahlberg
Ric Osuna
Paula Uruburu
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Break
Donnie Wahlberg
00:32
A quick note before we begin. This episode contains references to child abuse and domestic violence, so please be advised.
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00:41
Previously on Very Scary People: On November 13th, 1974, a mass murder shook the sleepy
Long Island
town of Amityville,
New York.
That night, six members of the same family were killed methodically, one by one, execution style. Only the oldest son, Ron DeFeo Jr.
., was spared, who told police he discovered the rest of his family slain at home in their beds.Share
01:15
The
DeFeo
murders made headlines everywhere. In Amityville,
police pored over evidence, trying to piece together clues, who killed every single member of this family but one? And why?Share
01:29
It was one of Long Island's most chilling crimes. Six members of the
DeFeo
family shot to death in their Amityville
home.Share
01:36
They say there was no sign of robbery or struggle at the
Amityville
, Long Island home. Killed were auto dealer, Ronald DeFeo
, his wife and four of their children.Share
01:45
People we talked to seemed to feel that whatever was the motive for this crime, it had something to do with the family.
Share
Donnie Wahlberg
01:50
On November 18th, five days after the murders, residents grieved the loss of the family at St. Martin's Of Tours, a Roman Catholic church in the heart of
Amityville
.Share
02:04
Laura DiDio was a television journalist in
New York
at the time of the murders.Share
Laura DiDio
02:11
Because of the notoriety and the publicity surrounding the case, where you had the news media there, you were having the funeral mass for six members of the
DeFeo
family, and the church was packed to overflowingShare
Donnie Wahlberg
02:25
Paula Uruburu was at the funeral that day. She was one of Dawn
DeFeo's
friends. Dawn, remember, was the oldest daughter in the family.Share
Paula Uruburu
02:34
There was no sound except for the Oregon. It was very weird, it was very quiet. Suddenly the wheel in not one, not two, but six coffins.
Share
Donnie Wahlberg
02:45
Anthony Gangitano played football with the middle son, Mark
DeFeo
.Share
Anthony Gangitano
02:50
I just remember all six coffins just in the front of the altar and it was just the most terrible thing you'll ever see in your life. I mean, it's terrible. You know, you're just in shock. I actually went outside for the wall and sat outside. It was overwhelming.
Share
Donnie Wahlberg
03:06
St. Martin of Tours, where the funeral took place, was founded in 1897. Nowadays it's surrounded by greenery, and when you walk through the churches, tall white double doors, the walls are lined with red, yellow and green mosaics that depict biblical scenes. Light streams in through colorful stained glass and from the intricate chandeliers. But that autumn day in 1974, six coffins were lined up in the middle of the church aisle. The funeral took place right across the street from the catholic elementary school in
Amityville
where the youngest DeFeo
kids went to school.Share
03:47
Here's Laura.
Share
Laura DiDio
03:48
The nuns decided not to let the classmates of the
DeFeo
children attend the funeral services for a number of reasons. Number one, it was crowded, but they didn't want the kids to be exposed to that. I mean, I guess it was Kinder through 8th grade and that's sort of sad when you think about it. Certainly they didn't want the school children to be exposed or be questioned by the news media or anything like that or they felt it would be upsetting, but it was still sad that those kids, the DeFeo
kids classmates, were not able to attend the funeral.Share
Donnie Wahlberg
04:29
This was the first time a lot of the older kids were exposed to such a violent and tragic loss of life. Here's Paula again
Share
Paula Uruburu
04:37
People's grandparents died or, you know, people in the family you weren't necessary close to as a kid, but when you're, you know, a junior in high school, a sophomore in high school and somebody your age dies, it has such an impact on you psychologically you suddenly have this sense of your own mortality, you feel like "well, I guess I could die".
Share
Donnie Wahlberg
04:58
Something like this was so unprecedented. And so shocking. There was almost a numbness, which made going to the funeral seemed like there was hardly an alternative.
Share
Paula Uruburu
05:09
Yeah, there was no sense of that you might be feeling grief or shock, any of the feelings that you would normally have, there was none of that, was like "go to school", you know? And then it was a question of, "well, if you want to go to the funeral, okay", and that was the extent of the conversation.
Share
Donnie Wahlberg
05:31
In the years since the murders, memory has smudged the sharp details of that day. But there are still a few things Paula remembers about her late friend's funeral.
Share
Paula Uruburu
05:42
The girl next to me felt like she was going to faint. I said "are you hot? Are you hot?" And she said "no, I just feel sick" and I kind of had that feeling too because I remember thinking that the coffins of the three younger children were white. I don't know that that was even true, but that was my memory of it. But I remember thinking: So, there were three adult sized coffins and then the three children, and I remember thinking, "Dawn is in one of those adult sized coffins".
Share
Donnie Wahlberg
06:10
That day during the funeral, the church was packed with neighbors and loved ones.
Share
Paula Uruburu
06:15
Was so heartbreaking, and again, to me there was no sound, every once in a while you'd hear a sob, maybe, or... but that was it. They wouldn't let us go out until everyone had filed out of the church. So, when we went out, all we saw was this huge procession of the hearse is now going to the saint Charles Cemetery. I mean, it really was a surreal kind of experience.
Share
Donnie Wahlberg
06:40
And in a strange turn of events, police wouldn't let
Ron DeFeo Jr
. attend his family's funeral. They wanted to keep him under the watchful eye of police, they said.Share
06:52
Ric Osuna wrote the book "The Night the DeFeos died". Like we said in the last episode, Ric is one of the preeminent experts on the murders.
Share
Ric Osuna
07:01
In turn, he never got to say goodbye. You know, I don't even think he's really ever got to properly grieve for his family, especially his brothers and sisters. You have to understand that he really loved his brothers and sisters, very, very much.
Share
Donnie Wahlberg
07:16
But look a little closer and you'll see the cracks within the family begin to appear.
Share
07:23
From HLN, this is Very Scary People: The
Amityville
Murders. I'm your host Donnie Wahlberg
. This is episode two: Meet the DeFeos.Share
07:45
Before the DeFeos became a family, Ron Sr. and Louise Brigante were just too young kids living in Brooklyn. Ron Sr. was tall, slender, and handsome. Louise was a natural beauty who wanted to pursue a career in modeling.
Share
Ric Osuna
07:59
I've been told by the family and friends that, you know, Louise at one time was even dating Mel Torme
Share
Donnie Wahlberg
08:06
Mel Torme, that wildly successful big band jazz singer. He composed probably one of the most famous christmas songs to date, you know, like "Chestnuts roasting on an open fire". I happen to know this because new kids on the block did a cover of it. It's actually called "The Christmas Song".
Share
Ric Osuna
08:25
She had the pick of the litter. She was a beautiful woman and young girl.
Share
Donnie Wahlberg
08:29
Louise and her parents, the Brigantes, were tight, but much to their dismay, it wasn't Mel she chose to stay in a relationship with. Louise, fell in love with a man nicknamed "Big Ronnie". The Brigantes weren't crazy about him, but when you're young and in love, it all happened so fast.
Share
Ric Osuna
08:52
When Big Ronnie, Ronald
DeFeo
Sr. met Louise, it seemed like they had fallen in love pretty quick. And Louise's parents, the Brigantes, we're not a fan of Big Ronnie. He was crude, obnoxious, a braggart. They didn't really see Louise with him.Share
Donnie Wahlberg
09:12
Still, Louise and Big Ronnie went ahead with their relationship, and they got married to each other in 1951. At first, Louise's parents completely cut her off, basically disowned her, but they wouldn't be out of the picture for long. Just a few months after the wedding, Michael and Angela Brigante came back into Big Ronnie and Louise's lives, just in time to welcome their first grandson,
Ron Jr.
to the family in September 1951.Share
Ric Osuna
09:43
The Brigantes loved Louise very, very much, and they wanted to make sure she was provided for. So they actually bought the house in
Amityville
for the DeFeos. They continue to buy furniture and so forth.Share
Donnie Wahlberg
10:00
After
Ron Jr.
was born, four more children followed. Louise and Big Ronnie seemed to be a happily married couple. Big Ronnie had a soft smile and thick brown hair, and his wife Louise had high cheekbones and big auburn hair. And the life sized oil paintings that hung along the Ocean Avenue house staircase: Louise is wearing a delicate red long sleeve dress and pearls around her neck. Friends said Louise was a loyal wife and a committed mother. She cooked a lot of Italian food and loved to take her kids to museums in New York
city. In family photos, the DeFeo
kids looked alike. All of them with dark hair and wide searching brown eyes.Share
Ric Osuna
10:43
You had Dawn
DeFeo
, Allison DeFeo
, you had Mark DeFeo
and then you had John Matthew DeFeo
. So it was a big family.Share
Donnie Wahlberg
10:55
In 1974, Dawn was 18, five years younger than her big brother,
Ron
aka "Ronnie" or "Butch". Dawn was outgoing, well liked and had plans to go to secretarial school after high school.Share
Ric Osuna
11:11
Dawn looked up to Butch and actually Butch looked up to Dawn. Butch told the children, you know, his younger brothers and sisters, that they should take after Dawn's example. She was going to school where Butch had not finished school.
Share
Donnie Wahlberg
11:26
Here's Paula again.
Share
Paula Uruburu
11:27
We first connected on C. Y. O. Softball, we were in the softball league together, and she seemed like such a genuine person with, she always had this, you know, nice smile, she was always friendly.
Share
Donnie Wahlberg
11:39
Even though Dawn was older, and by teenage rules hipper, she didn't make Paula feel less cool.
Share
Paula Uruburu
11:46
There were other girls who, because they were older than you by a year, they didn't really want to associate with you. But she was never like that. We were just 13, 14 year olds having slumber parties and pool parties. There was nothing out of the norm.
Share
Donnie Wahlberg
12:01
Younger kids in the neighborhood knew Alison, Mark and John Matthew
DeFeo
from grade school. Alison was 13, barely a teenager when she was killed.Share
Ric Osuna
12:12
So Alison
DeFeo
was, if you had to say it, Butch DeFeo's
favorite sibling. She was very petite, very neat and organized, and she loved puzzles. She loved writing in Butch's boat.Share
Donnie Wahlberg
12:29
Then came Mark, who was 11 then, and recovering from a football injury. John Matthew was the youngest
DeFeo
.Share
Ric Osuna
12:36
Butch
DeFeo
was very close to his brothers. He loved him. Little John Matt, he was nine when he died, and he was just your typical nine year old boy, loved playing with their dog, Shaggy, and he was just a sweet kid.Share
Donnie Wahlberg
12:55
The family had money, but the kids didn't flaunt it. Here's journalist Laura DiDio.
Share
Laura DiDio
13:01
They did not walk around like, "hey, we're rich kids flashing money", they had normal lives. They rode their bikes, you know, in those days before computer, before the internet, before video games, you went and you played outside, or you went over to your friend's houses and visited. They were happy, they liked their siblings.
Share
Donnie Wahlberg
13:21
In a lot of ways, the DeFeos were your average white middle class family living in the suburbs.
Share
Laura DiDio
13:27
They were well adjusted. They had a lot of friends and engaged in all of the normal activities for kids their age.
Share
Donnie Wahlberg
13:36
In other words, they were, well, pretty normal, at least that's how Dawn's friend Paula remembers it.
Share
Paula Uruburu
13:43
The pool parties were fun and there was nothing out of the norm. You would never think that there was anything weird, anything that would happen, that would disrupt this, you know, typical suburban 1970s childhood.
Share
Donnie Wahlberg
13:57
The two became friends playing softball together. Paula remembers what Dawn looked like as a teenager.
Share
Paula Uruburu
14:03
She had a very round face and she was just beaming all the time. And she, I remember she had this long, really long hair that we always marveled at it. And we used to joke with her that, when we were playing softball, that it was going to get in the way, but she would never put in a ponytail. That was sort of her crowning glory.
Share
Donnie Wahlberg
14:21
Paula remembers being really impressed by Dawn. She was confident and not afraid to bend the rules.
Share
Paula Uruburu
14:30
I think the one I smile about is we all have recess at the same time. I was in seventh grade, she was in eighth grade and the nuns were very strict about having your shirt tucked in and you had to have your skirts at a certain length. And I remember her looking and doing what we all did, which was to roll up our skirts a little bit to be in fashion and, you know, to be cool. I saw her do what we all did when we weren't around our parents. And I remember thinking, "wow, she's crazy because the nuns are going to say something". I looked at her and she smiled at me as if to say, "you know what I'm doing right?", and it was like this little moment and I just remember that's so funny. That was who she was, you know.
Share
Donnie Wahlberg
15:13
Like so many teenagers, Dawn wanted to get away from her parents after high school. This naturally created some strife in the family.
Share
Ric Osuna
15:21
She wanted out of the house and she was willing to do just about anything for it.
Share
Donnie Wahlberg
15:27
Dawn had a boyfriend named William Davidge. He was the same age as Dawn. His family had moved to
Florida
from Long Island,
and Dawn longed to start a new life with him.Share
Ric Osuna
15:40
Dawn was trying to get to
Florida
to be with him, and he said that, she would have done just about anything to get out of that house, including riding with the devil all the way to Florida
, if that is what it took.Share
Donnie Wahlberg
15:51
In an affidavit, Davidge wrote Louise and
Big Ronnie
wouldn't let Dawn move away. He also said Dawn would use Butch for money and talks about a time Butch gave him cash to take Dawn to the high school prom. So what was it? Was Dawn running to Florida
or away from Amityville
?Share
16:14
The more investigators looked into the DeFeos. The more details began to emerge about the family. Remember, Dr. Ziv Cohen from our last episode?, he's the forensic psychiatrist who studied the
Amityville
murder case closely. Dr Cohen says, "children who were abused at home, more often than not, keep the abuse to themselves".Share
Dr. Ziv Cohen
16:36
It's very common that the families are extremely good at hiding it. In fact, nobody is better at hiding it than the kids, and the kids learn from a very young age what is okay to talk about outside the family and what is not.
Share
Donnie Wahlberg
16:50
In his research, Dr. Cohen also found there was some tension between siblings, and the way
Ron Jr.
spoke about his younger siblings after the murders, felt stilted and disconnected.Share
Dr. Ziv Cohen
17:02
When he talks about them, it's very superficial. There's very little sadness, if any, that I can see about their deaths. He'll say things about Mark and John, like "we would always play in the car, I would take them for a drive". It's these very flat anecdotes, there's very little emotional complexity, there's no real sense for who they were as people, which is what you usually hear when someone talks about someone that they have real love for and that they're grieving for, they will share certain anecdotes that really give you a sense for who that person was in life and the quality of the relationship.
Share
Donnie Wahlberg
17:41
Dr. Cohen says,
Ron Jr.
had real issues with his sister Dawn.Share
Dr. Ziv Cohen
17:46
So when
DeFeo
talks about his siblings, I think what's most notable to me is the callousness with which he talks about them, certainly about Dawn. He talks about her with clear hostility.Share
Break
Donnie Wahlberg
18:38
At the center of the
DeFeo
family was the patriarch, Big Ronnie. Laura DiDio says he was a man with a big personality who had a reputation.Share
Laura DiDio
18:48
In trying to describe to today's audience what Big Ronnie Sr. was like, as an archie-bunker on steroids type character. So he was of his time. He was Italian, he was chauvinistic, he had a temper.
Share
Donnie Wahlberg
19:09
Here's Joel Martin, one of the first reporters at the scene of the murders back in 1974.
Share
Joel Martin
19:15
People did not like Ronnie, I'm sorry to say. I don't want to put him down and I don't want to criticize him despite holy terrible things they say he has done. It's not my place necessarily, but the family itself has a reputation from some of the neighbors who I've spoken to, of having a lot of problems. And this is the problem. The problem is that they Don't get along sometimes.
Share
Donnie Wahlberg
19:40
Neighbors whom Joel talked to that night, remember there was a lot of fighting at the
Ocean Avenue
house, and it got pretty loud.Share
Joel Martin
19:48
Ronnie
and his father fight, the wife and the husband sometimes don't get along and they argue. And so, there is dissension in this conflict within the DeFeo
family. It's not the happiest place you want to be. Far from it, it was just not very good. And this is the neighborhood's reputation or thoughts about the family and the house.Share
Donnie Wahlberg
20:13
At those summertime pool parties Paula Uruburu remembers hanging out with all the
DeFeo
kids and their mom Louise. Big Ronnie was usually absent, but the moment he showed up, you couldn't miss it.Share
Paula Uruburu
20:25
Her father was controlling the barbecue outside and shouting orders to whomever. He was a big presence, you know, he had a big personality. There were some fathers that didn't make an impression on you and in this case the impression that he made was simply that, I don't want to say the term "bully", you were a little afraid of him. He was a little scary because his voice was a little loud.
Share
Donnie Wahlberg
20:47
Paula felt similar vibes from
Ron Jr.,
but there was something a little off about him too, and not just in a weird "he's my friend's older brother" type of way.Share
Paula Uruburu
20:57
And he just was this loner and was really kind of not attached to the whole social aspect of the family.
Share
Donnie Wahlberg
21:04
Back to that family violence we alluded to earlier, journalist Laura DiDio says Big Ronnie allegedly had a history of getting physical with his wife.
Share
Laura DiDio
21:16
There are stories about how Louise was coming up from the basement because in those days many people had their laundry room in the basement, and she was carrying a wash basket full of clothes, and he slapped her and she went down the basement stairs. So there was some of that, and there was that mentality probably among chauvinists that "hey, women had to know their place and keep to it".
Share
Donnie Wahlberg
21:41
Gloria Gangitano witnessed Ron's strong personality firsthand on a couples trip. She was friends with Louise.
Share
Gloria Gangitano
21:49
Well, we did go to Montreal to Canada with Ronnie and Louise, and my husband and myself. We went for a few days, and that was quite an experience. He was a strange guy, Mr.
DeFeo,
he kind of wanted to be in control of Louise and me. We went to a church and the priest was taking us on a tour and we were like, you know, reacting "wow, I can't believe it, I can't believe it", and he got insulted because he said "I told you all about this already and you sounded like you never heard it before". So he wanted a following that everyone should just listen to him, and do what he says, and agree with him. He kind of thought that he was in charge of everything. So it was kind of an interesting weekend. I was glad I got home.Share
Donnie Wahlberg
22:54
Ric Osuna had a theory about where Big Ronnie's abusive behavior came from.
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Ric Osuna
23:01
I think that was to compensate for him living in the shadow of his father in law. Without his father in law, he wouldn't have a job, he wouldn't have a house, his father in law even paid for the expensive family portraits that Big Ronnie wanted. So Big Ronnie compensated by being big and loud and, you know, beating his family.
Share
Donnie Wahlberg
23:26
We'll get to know Big Ronnie's father in law, Michael Brigante, soon. But first, let's spend some time getting to know the only
DeFeo
who survived that night, Ron DeFeo Jr
.Share
Ronald DeFeo Jr.
23:36
I'm Ronald Butch DeFeo
Share
Donnie Wahlberg
23:38
According to Ron Jr., his father's abusive and controlling tendencies were on full display at home.
Share
Ronald DeFeo Jr.
23:45
We're all like animals, and like a dog on a leash, everybody in that house. Nobody could be free.
Share
Break
Donnie Wahlberg
24:31
Ric Osuna refers to
Ron DeFeo Jr
. by his nickname, Butch. Ric's own journey with the Amityville family started in 2000, when he was a researcher working on a history channel documentary about the murders. After the project was over, he followed his curiosity to learn more about the DeFeo
family. That led him to Ron Jr
.. Ric would later get to know Ron Jr.
pretty well.Share
24:59
The abuse at the hands of his father started early. Ric says that Louise's brother once saw Big Ronnie push
Ron Jr.
into a wall when the child was just two years old. They'd all been sitting in the basement just watching tv. Sometimes Big Ronnie would be affectionate and playful, the next moment he got physical. And things didn't get easier, as Ron Jr.
grew older. Rick says as the firstborn DeFeos' son, the pressure to excel was really high. By the time Ron Jr.
was in his twenties, he was a stocky guy with a full beard and thick bushy eyebrows. But as a kid, Butch was overweight and his dad didn't let him forget it. It took a toll on Ron Jr.
aka "Butch".Share
Ric Osuna
25:45
Butch DeFeo
, when he was a teenager, took a lot of speed to lose weight. He wanted to get skinnier and he got into drugs and alcohol.Share
Donnie Wahlberg
25:54
Here's Ron Jr. in an interview from 2014
Share
Ronald DeFeo Jr.
25:58
Every day I got high, I used heroin, I was using a lot of heroin back then. I was drinking to a successful Scotch on the rocks.
Share
Donnie Wahlberg
26:10
It's hard to tell which came first for
Ron Jr
.: the drugs and alcohol, or the run ins with the cops. But in his teens, he started getting into trouble with the law.Share
Ric Osuna
26:20
He did get arrested prior to the murders for grand larceny and stealing an outboard motor. And so, Butch would never look for trouble, but he would never run away from it either.
Share
Donnie Wahlberg
26:32
At 23,
Ron Jr.
was in and out of trouble. But his mom, Louise, looked the other way. Ric recalls Ron Jr.
was particularly close with Louise.Share
Ric Osuna
26:41
Butch was her pride and joy. The relationship strained over the years because Butch started blaming his mother for allowing his father, her husband, to get out of control with the abuse.
Share
Donnie Wahlberg
26:59
Louise's friend, Gloria, believed there was something sinister about
Ron "Butch" DeFeo Jr
.Share
Gloria Gangitano
27:07
Louise used to tell me that Butchie was bad. I didn't know what she meant, but she said "no, Butchie is bad, you know, he's always troublesome".
Share
Donnie Wahlberg
27:19
So there was sibling rivalry and physical abuse in the
DeFeo
household on Ocean Avenue
. And Ric says there was something else.Share
Ric Osuna
27:28
Folks in
Amityville
knew, they were connected to the mob as well.Share
Donnie Wahlberg
27:35
And so, investigators began to follow a new lead. Did the mob have something to do with the
DeFeo
murders?Share
Ronald DeFeo Jr.
27:43
I knew something bad was gonna happen to my mother and father. I didn't know when it was going to happen, I didn't know who was going to do it, but I could say that I knew something was coming.
Share
Donnie Wahlberg
27:53
That's next time on Very Scary People
Share
28:01
Very Scary People: The
Amityville
Murders, is hosted by me, Donnie Wahlberg
. It's a production of HLN in collaboration with Neon Hum Media. It is based on an original series created by CNN Executive producer, Nancy Duffy. At CNN, our senior producer is Sabina Rheiman. Our producers Alison O'brien, and our executive producer is Abbie Fentress Swanson. Alexander McCall leads audience strategy for our show, and James Andreas designed our artwork. From Neon Hum Media, our executive producer is Jonathan Hirsch. Kate Mishkin is our producer, and our associate producers are Chloe Chaobal and Navani Otero. Our editor is Stephanie Serrano. Samantha Allison is our production manager. Sam Bear and Josh Hart are a mixed engineers. Theme and original music composed by Asha Ivanovich. Additional music came from Blue Dot Sessions and Epidemic Sound. Special thanks to Sarah Lawrence
, Michael Reyes
, Kourtney Coop, Tameka balanced colostomy, Ashley Lusk, Robert Mathers, Christian de Chateau, Lisa Nah Moreau and John Dinora.Share
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Donnie Wahlberg
Laura DiDio
Paula Uruburu
Anthony Gangitano
Ric Osuna
Dr. Ziv Cohen
Joel Martin
Gloria Gangitano
Ronald DeFeo Jr.