Thursday, Jun 30, 2022 • 1h, 9min

Downtown Josh Brown & Michael Batnick on Disney+, Peloton, Knicks, podcasting, markets, & more | E1496

This Week in Startups
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Today, Jason is joined by the hosts of “What are your thoughts?” Downtown Josh Brown (CEO of Ritholtz Wealth Management) and Michael Batnick (Managing Partner at Ritholtz Wealth Management). They discuss the Knicks (1:22), Podcasting (14:25), markets (26:20), Disney (37:52), and more. Finally, Jason takes some audience questions (44:50). (0:00) Cold Open (1:22) Downtown Josh Brown & Michael Batnick join Jason: catching up and talking basketball (13:10) Coda - The All-in-one doc for teams, get a $1,000 credit at https://coda.io/twist https://coda.io/twist (14:25) Audio as a media business (18:50) Why can’t the Knicks get great young talent to want to come? (20:35) ActiveCampaign - Get 10% off your ActiveCampaign subscription today at https://activecampaign.com/promo/twist https://activecampaign.com/promo/twist (21:46) What’s it like being involved with the Warriors? (26:20) Market dynamics (36:25) LinkedIn Marketing - Get a $100 LinkedIn ad credit at https://linkedin.com/thisweekinstartups https://linkedin.com/thisweekinstartups (37:52) Building a Disney position (44:50) Questions from the audience: Jason’s thoughts on RobinHood (59:12) Most exciting recent investment for Jason (1:06:30) Last question (1:07:30) Outro
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Speakers
(3)
Jason Calacanis
Josh Brown
Michael Batnick
Transcript
Verified
Jason Calacanis
00:00
Whenever finance gets super complicated, it's probably there are some things that are complicated of course. But whenever it gets super complicated, it's probably cause somebody's running a Grift or a skin When people started to explain to me Oh, you can get 15%, by loaning out your Bitcoin. I was like, Okay, what's explained to me the scam? What's the Grift and like not a Grift? I'm like, Okay, who's paying the 15% interest?
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Josh Brown
00:23
What's the, what's the risk that I'm not seeing exactly
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Break
Jason Calacanis
01:22
Alright, everybody I've quit this week in startups and all in and I'm now working for downtown Josh brown. I'm Jason Calacanis.
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Josh Brown
01:29
Thanks.
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Jason Calacanis
01:30
Thanks for hiring me, explain what we're doing here, Josh this experiment, we're doing an experiment.
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Josh Brown
01:35
We are simulcasting. Is that the right way to say it.
Share
01:42
Right? So all right, so here's what's going, So here's what's going on? We are live on your channel.
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Jason Calacanis
01:47
Okay. This week in startups.
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Josh Brown
01:49
Yes. And we're live on the compound, which is our channel. And I think there are live chats going In both. Uh, yeah, I think they're separate though. I don't think my people are mingling with your people. I'm not 100% sure about that.
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Jason Calacanis
02:02
They're separated. So there's no back and forth. But we can on re stream see both coming in.
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Josh Brown
02:08
Yes, That's pretty cool.
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Michael Batnick
02:09
That's pretty cool comments coming from our folks are yours.
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Jason Calacanis
02:13
That's a good question.
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Michael Batnick
02:14
I think we're purple. They're they're gray.
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Jason Calacanis
02:17
Maybe that's what it is. Yeah. Look at that stream interface, lets Exactly. Well, I'm just tweeting you guys have been having incredible. I don't know how long you've been doing your live streams, Josh and Michael, but Your, when I tune in, you got 500 people, 1000 people, we get 3, 400, you know, pretty regularly now.
Share
02:38
But this new streaming line There is that there is that I mean, Josh and I feel like we have pretty close hair were both, you know, whatever, 67% were trying to get a little bit of a dip here, Michael. I don't know what's going on with your hair.
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02:53
I was watching you guys had a show where you were talking about there's a pill coming. So Josh, and I can get back to 2 ". We lost here.
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Josh Brown
03:00
Yes.
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03:02
And Michael and Michael Kennedy on the, on the rest of the bottle.
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Jason Calacanis
03:06
I don't think it's gonna work for you. Michael, I think you're too far gone.
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Josh Brown
03:10
So we think we think that our audience is primarily individual investors and then probably like, let's say 10-20% are professional investors, and or financial advisors.
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Michael Batnick
03:22
We have a lot of Fed officials, officials.
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Josh Brown
03:25
We know, uh, we know when we look at google analytics that this skews a lot younger than anything else that we do. And for those who are older than me for the young of heart age doesn't have to be biological. Who do you think is, the core audience for this week in startups?
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Jason Calacanis
03:44
Yeah, It's very clearly people running startups, capital allocators in the private market and then fans of tech, you know, large. So if you just were fans of apps and You know, technology, we talk about general tech as well. So I think there's some crossover here, but it, it's probably 25% or something to that. And I think it's a good way to introduce people to both channels.
Share
04:04
And I've been watching your channel and your experimentation With the
YouTube
live audience. So this week in startups is over 10 years old. We do six episodes a week and it is, you know, a bit of an institution. We sell out all the ads. It makes millions of dollars a year. I just have molly wood is my co host now. I got her from marketplace.
Share
04:21
And so we got nine people working on it full time. But we started this live on
YouTube
because I got obsessed with a
YouTube
live channel called
Knicks
fan. Tv. I'm a Diehard
Knicks
fan.
Share
04:32
Yeah, sorry about that. I know. I don't know what's going on this offseason, but at least we're gonna get, we're gonna get him tomorrow 110 million.
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04:43
Yeah. I mean he seems like a great gritty point guard for 15-20 million, but I don't think for 25 years we don't know he's a good player on a good team and we're teams so we don't, you know, I mean there's no way we can go down, right? But I just love RJ Barrett.
Share
05:00
I'm really watching his development. I think this is gonna be the breakout year. I love a lot of our bench, you know, quickly crimes O. B. Sims. I don't know if you're watching Jericho sims development. That kid's got potential big fan.
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Josh Brown
05:16
He's a monster.
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Michael Batnick
05:17
He's a monster child, but he doesn't know how to play basketball yet. He's like a few years away.
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Jason Calacanis
05:22
He knows how to put the to dunk the basket and to block the shot and he's so high in the air and I think OBI toppin is the other one. If we just do player development. I think this teams, you know got great potential. It seems like a lot of the teams that have made it did it through drafting right?
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Michael Batnick
05:36
Like I'm hearing, I'm hearing way too much optimism. You've been in exchange for a long time. What is this?
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Jason Calacanis
05:41
That's the problem. I had, I was in the last row of section 324 during the Ewing Era.
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05:46
I was there for the Larry Johnson four. Play. I was there for spree.
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Michael Batnick
05:50
Well the spurs loss I watched so how are you still glass at full? I don't even understand.
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Josh Brown
05:56
Well we Would't want a playoff series in, in 22 years.
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Jason Calacanis
06:02
I'll tell you my plan, I have done okay investing in private market companies that sometimes go public And I made a 10 year plan. I looked at all my angel investing this year. I'll do you know put 100 million to work in private markets with my team of 21 people right?
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06:21
I am pretty active angel investment early stage companies and there is an outside chance if I hit two more Ubers in my life and a couple of more of those singles and doubles that I would have enough money. I could hit trace commas and lead a group to buy the
Knicks
.
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Josh Brown
06:39
This is the last thing you know sell it.
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Jason Calacanis
06:43
But there's always a possibility that you know Dolan could his music career, his music career could go really well and the downtown Bryan but he's got, I think his band is called downtown something, his his his I will stream his music on repeat for hours a day if that's what it takes, I would literally listen to his music for an hour a day if he would sell me the next book is banned for every bar mitzvah on Long Island to get him out of that shot just crushing it out there.
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07:17
So d you know, I don't have an exact format for here. But I thought maybe taking questions from the audience and going back and and just talking about markets because I watch your show to give people a little idea of what the compound is. How long have you been doing? It's been is it under a year now or is It?
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Josh Brown
07:33
It's not that it's not that long but it's more than a year, 2018 I Think we launched in 2018 but we didn't start hiring actual staff until 19. And so we, so there's a lot going on behind the scenes that makes the show look much better than it would be if it was just me and mike trying to figure out
YouTube
and podcasts.
Share
07:55
So we've got uh staff and they are incredible editors, videographers, audio engineers, They just social media people and we've made a big investment because the feedback that we get from our clients who are watching our stuff and listening to our stuff is that it's really like become part of their routine and you know, when you have people managing money for you and giving you financial advice, it's not realistic that you're gonna talk to them every day, but they don't feel the need to because we're giving everybody so much information about how we think and what we're debating internally and, so it, it's like a really great combination of building a fan base who will eventually become clients and talking to existing clients, uh, and friends of the firm all in in one package.
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Jason Calacanis
08:47
So we're really enjoying doing it, contrast it for me, Josh to your
CNBC
hits because you're still doing that.
Share
08:54
How is this different this medium? Because I was doing
CNBC
like every other week for a while and we got to share the stage a couple of times I think.
Share
09:04
And so it's very different obviously podcasting and then podcasting is different than
YouTube
live streaming.
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Josh Brown
09:10
So I guess it's like three buckets there, but for you, so, so you can relate to this, your show all in is routinely every week, one of the top business podcasts in the world and you have a rapport with that crew and it's the same crew pretty much, you know, every time I know every once in a while, people can't make it and you throw some new voices into the mix, but like there are just people that you can almost like Michael could probably explain it better than I can, but there's like a rapport that enables a much better conversation sometimes than when two people who barely know each other or on a zoom or you know, two different studios.
Share
09:53
So you know, I feel like the podcast, I feel like the podcast, formula is the winning formula for pretty much every topic under the sun, whether it's sports history, pop culture. So for finance, it's a layup.
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10:08
It's people that understand each other's differences and similarities and they know when one is finishing a sentence, the other ones beginning it's like, it's just so much team basketball is like being the Warriors or something.
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Jason Calacanis
10:20
You pass him better.
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Josh Brown
10:22
And Michael.
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Michael Batnick
10:25
Yeah, I mean, TV TV is a tough format. You've got 20 seconds to make a point. It's all about what's gonna happen. But by the end of the day, it's just, it's hard to, it's hard to get nuance in there and yeah, it's just a tough format I think.
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Josh Brown
10:38
Yeah, I think tv is great for real time breaking and that's a lot of what, you know what we do in financial media because the market is the subject and the market is constantly moving. So that is important. But then there's like room for later in the day or early the next morning for people who are commuting to work or riding a bike or whatever, going for a walk and there's no need for real time.
Share
11:03
The markets closed and like, let's try to like figure out what's going on together. So that's where I think podcasts fit and it's not either or most people in the middle of the day aren't consuming a podcast if the markets open because they're paying attention to what the market is doing. So I, I feel like it's just another day part that live tv in finance doesn't really address. There's also
CNBC
has shark tank on at night.
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Michael Batnick
11:27
You know, it's also something to the audio format and I learned this from being a lifelong
Howard Stern
fan where you feel like, you know every character on his show, you take them really where you take them with you where you go.
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Jason Calacanis
11:38
And I'll like if I listen to an old
Howard Stern
bit, I will remember oftentimes literally where I was in the car when I heard that the first Time I could tell you the first time I heard
Howard Stern
when I was 15 years old in Brooklyn and a friend came over and said, you have to listen to this tape.
Share
11:53
It's Hill street jews and it's a bunch of Hasidic guys playing the characters of Hill Street Blues, the old Tv show and it was like contraband to have tapes of
Howard Stern
In the 80s to listen to when he was on the, in the afternoon.
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Josh Brown
12:07
So, so just taking this a step further. I heard Daniel EK give an interview about the power of audio and he made this point that really resonated with me.
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12:19
If you think about all of the mediums, television, movies, a book, like any way that you get concept. So newspaper, article, magazine, take all of those mediums. The most true medium is audio.
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12:34
And the example he gave is there were tape recordings of the Beatles in studio. I forget what album they were recording, but in between takes, they're like legitimately having conversations about nonsense. What's for lunch today? Why was John late? Whatever.
Share
12:51
But when you listen to that with your eyes closed there, it's like you're in the room with them, no other medium. So when you watch a movie, the director makes choices, what angle am I shooting this from? What, what coloration being manipulated. It's magical.
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Jason Calacanis
13:09
It's, if you're a startup, having a disorganized team is going to kill your business. You need everybody to be on the same page. And as an investor, I see this all the time. You must adopt a right first culture, especially in this remote world.
Share
13:26
And use great structure in a beautiful
Coda
page, one dock to rule them all works right out of the box. It's totally customizable. Encode a, your text and tables. They live together on the same dock, which means all your valuable data, the objectives, the KPI S, the strategies are all in one place, nothing gets lost.
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13:45
And your team is literally on the same page, Some great ways that we use
Coda
product roadmaps absolutely important, remote on boarding, super important and taking meeting notes and Koda has a ton of templates for almost anything you can imagine.
Share
13:58
In fact we put our 100 point checklist on
Coda
. So just go to this week in startups dot com slash sc, You can make a copy of this, you can do the checklist yourself with your internal team, you can expand it, you can make it a 200 point checklist, you can make three sub checklists underneath some of the important items.
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14:16
So join the productivity revolution and sign up for kota head to
Coda
dot io slash twist to sign up and get $1,000 and startup credits, Huh? How great is that voice is voice?
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Josh Brown
14:26
Like if you're listening to the three of us right now, you could conceivably be in the room with us and it's all true. There's nothing, you know, there's nothing disguising what's going on, you know, of all the media.
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Jason Calacanis
14:37
And if you think about what's happened in journalism, you know, we look at the
New York
times, we look at Fox MSNBC, everybody seems to have picked a side. Everybody's got an agenda. You layer on link baiting on top of that, you layer on their desire to get subscribers by picking a side.
Share
14:52
Like the
New York
times, you know, felt like left moderate. But now it feels like it's MSNBC and then other people feel like they're going super far to the right to, to catch up to fox and it's just gross to even click on those links, like every week here in Silicon Valley, we have another tech company when the
New York
times is just dunking on them and trying to destroy them.
Share
15:13
The away founder with that luggage company, they got destroyed the woman who ran that company, they just do these kind of hit pieces in
the New York Times
.
Share
15:21
And then I had the guy from Kraken, the guy Jesse who they did a hit piece on like last week and he seemed completely reasonable on a podcast.
Share
15:27
And so I think the audience is starting to figure this out as well. It's like, oh joe Rogan interviewing somebody.
Share
15:33
Yeah, I can make my own decision of what I think of Jordan Peterson or what I think of Sam Harris or whoever.
Share
15:39
And I don't need a journalist at
the New York Times
to reframe it for me and do those edits like Scorsese is doing to, you know, make you feel emotion.
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15:47
I think the
New York
times is now making those edits, they're making the quotes kind of, I kind of see a push and pull there.
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Josh Brown
15:55
Like I heard Ray Dalio talk about the Wall, you know, the Wall Street Journal had been going very in depth on Bridgewater and not everything they published was flattering and Dalio in response, started
Linkedin
And he just started saying rather than, you know, hope that my message gets out through a reporter, I'll just start writing my own Lincoln column.
Share
16:17
And it's been successful for him. And you know, one of the comments he made, not 100% sure I believe this, but the media is, is part of the problem with America because we have no heroes anymore. The minute somebody accomplishes something, the instinct on the part of the press is how can we rip this person to shreds for clicks now?
Share
16:37
So that's one side of it. The other side of it is we've had incredible journalism that has probably saved investors a lot of money being skeptical.
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16:48
And the second example, yes, I mean, so like the, you need, you need the Wall Street Journal and
the New York Times
to support journalists who are going to be, I don't wanna say cynical but may be skeptical enough so that if there is going on a lot of money doesn't get lost. So it's, I don't know where the line is.
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Jason Calacanis
17:10
Of course, it's always moving shorts, you know, like shorting is a great thing in terms of intellectual honesty in the markets, somebody gets to place a bet against it.
Share
17:18
But then if they go fud like they did on
Tesla
, you're like, okay, you're sending drones over like a garage to tell us that there's no model threes being shipped. But when I drop my kids off at school, it's all
Tesla's
like, what's the narrative here? Like if they're delivering the cars, they're delivering the car.
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Michael Batnick
17:35
So the fud stuff gets kinda, it's very it's very simple because it's all driven by incentives. So I was looking at this because there's a saying in our industry, our friend Philip pullman says the higher the Vix, the higher the clicks.
Share
17:47
And I was breaking this down on my own blog. I'm gonna write about it later this week when the Vix is under 25 which is a pretty like calm market environment. I average around 5000 pages of my blog when the Vix is over 45, it's 15,000.
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Jason Calacanis
18:02
It is a new one now it's called Nix for clicks last night. Bill Simmons started his show and I talked to Bill Simmons about this of like he's got so many
Knicks
fans, like I'm constantly, you know, damning him Nick stuff and they started the show with Nick's just to go off on us for like our off season and you know like we can't get any superstars here and we got Leon Rose and all these other people.
Share
18:28
And so what cp the franchise who does this
Knicks
fan tv thing, what he calls it is Nick's for clicks. So any time the national press wants to get clicks Stephen a smith whoever it is next for clicks.
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Josh Brown
18:41
So the reason why the
Knicks
can't get any the
Knicks
can get people here,
Knicks
can get people here. But they all right, I spoke to Enis Kanter one of my favorite players in the N. B. A. I mean just like one of the most passionate people I've ever met can't.
Share
19:02
So I I spent a day with him a couple of years ago and he was on he was on the
Knicks
, but leaving. And one of the things that he said it is like a really big impediment to getting you know, great young players to want to come here. It's so weird. It's so strange. But like I believe him because he's had conversations with people about this.
Share
19:23
If you're a young player joining the
Knicks
, where do you live? Because they practice in Westchester. They play they play on the west side of
Manhattan
, but they practice in Westchester. So like just like hypothetically you choose to live in Westchester. Okay, great. You're right near the practice facility, but you could be two hours from msg on game day by car. So do it reverse live in midtown
Manhattan
.
Share
19:52
Not great, but do that now. What? So you're near the games, but for practice, you could get stuck in rush hour traffic leaving
Manhattan
. So it's like this weird thing that nobody would ever think about. But he's like people think about their lifestyle. So if four teams are going to give them $20 million, why would they pick the team that makes them commute. Like a shoe salesman.
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Jason Calacanis
20:13
Why is the training facility at msg just the building next to it.
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Josh Brown
20:18
It's unbelievable.
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Jason Calacanis
20:19
I'm gonna make it first class all the way. I'm gonna build like an entire building. I'm gonna give them, I'm gonna, I'm going on the slide rented houses, how, how dolman treats Charles Oakley, throwing him out of the building.
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Michael Batnick
20:33
The secret secret, the words that nobody's coming here.
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Jason Calacanis
20:37
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Share
20:58
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Share
21:20
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Josh Brown
21:48
So tell us about your like role or involvement with the
Warriors
and what what this year felt like, like give us, give us, give us some, well, you know, I'm a Diehard
Knicks
fan, but since we're not in the playoffs, I also don't worry about that.
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Jason Calacanis
22:02
Yeah, I'm friendly, I'm, I root for the Warriors. I like their style of play. I'm friendly with a couple of the Warriors, very good friends with Draymond in fact and so and my friend Mammoth owns part of the team and so I developed relationships with some of the players, switch them off and then you know, uh I go to the games, you know, I went to off, I went to all the playoff finals, games are incredible to see.
Share
22:24
And then yeah, I was, I had courtside for one, ironically I had courtside for one, which somebody gave me the ticket, I didn't pay for it.
Share
22:34
And I sit down and who am I sitting down next to Sheryl Sandberg.
Share
22:37
And so everybody's like, oh, Cheryl and Jake are going to the game and I've been so critical of Zuckerberg. So that was a very funny moment. Then I took molly to the second where I paid for those seats and then I have a friend who has two tickets right behind the bench of the warrior.
Share
22:50
So I go I sit in those all the time, which is my favorite seats because I can see right there and I know staff and so Steph will say hi to me or whatever and everybody kind of freaks out or whatever. But the funny story was when I first started going to the games, I was sitting intimacy and they're playing the
Knicks
and I was not friends with any team players yet.
Share
23:11
So they're going up 30 against the
Knicks
. And I say to Steve Kerr, you know like what are you doing? This is Bush league like get the starters out. What if like staff roles, this anchor and Andre Iguodala tells me to shut up Bogart tells me to shut up. I start telling them, listen, you guys can't even beat the clippers.
Share
23:27
You need to shut up, you're up 30 on the
Knicks
, you're not getting past the clippers. This is before they had won any games. And so then I became good friends with good friends with David Lee and I play, you know, it's a small town here. So we play cards, we hang out or whatever. But I got to go to three out of the four years they went to Vegas to celebrate.
Share
23:43
So three out of those three years I went with them to Vegas, it's just a lot of fun to, you know with them.
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Josh Brown
23:48
So how important. So so the
Knicks
can't attract young players, the
Warriors
, obviously they're obviously the best team in the league over the last 10 years.
Share
23:57
But besides that 11 attribute of that team and where they're based is that there seems to be like venture investing opportunities available to NBA players who show up there just like by being in the scene and meeting people who have front row seats that, but that's like a hidden advance. It's not hidden, that's like an advantage that your team has to attract talent. Right?
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Jason Calacanis
24:21
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, Iguodala has his own fund cady was involved with a lot of the companies when he was out here.
Share
24:28
Draymond is involved in that stuff. Draymond getting into media stuff now. So I, you know, I'm a media guy. So I've been, you know, talking to him about his plans and brainstorming with him and just even giving him some like on air tips of like, hey, you know, great job on that.
Share
24:42
You know, I don't know if you watch his Draymond Green show on the post after he does after he plays in the game. He goes, how many records of
YouTube
video? Which is pretty, it's awesome. So it's pretty great.
Share
24:55
And you know, it's just nice to be watching that style of play. I think Steve Kerr is a genius and got everybody to buy in staff is, you know, if we look back on staff, I mean, how is history going to look at him and the Lebron era, you know, like who's gonna think he moved up a lot in the last month, just in, in the minds of basketball people, it's not a, it's not just like a guy with a circus shot anymore.
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Josh Brown
25:21
It's a guy that can carry a whole team to a championship game.
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Jason Calacanis
25:24
I mean like if you look at Lebron and you look at staff like Lebron is obviously like this incredible like basketball player, like is there anybody who's ever been an individual? Better basketball player? Forget about the championships just as an individual.
Share
25:40
But then he didn't change the game. It's not like they had to change the rules or everybody changed the style of the game, you know, shock. They had to change rules for him.
Share
25:48
They change the rules for I think staff, you know, like really did change the game.
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Josh Brown
25:52
And My kids, my son plays a au basketball on the travel team, we're a million miles away from the bay area, but these kids are throwing up three's like they would not have been doing 15 years ago. There's just no way. There and there and they're hitting them because that's all they work on.
Share
26:11
And that's the, you know, the most glamorous thing you could do as a 13 year old is, is hit two or 33 pointers in a game. That would not be how they would have been playing 15 years ago. So I agree with you.
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Jason Calacanis
26:21
Let's go to markets, I have a question for you guys? Uh, if we, this has been quite a drawdown obviously, for tech stocks, for growth stocks, etcetera.
Share
26:32
Do you believe we're bouncing along the bottom right now because we're looking at some of the valuations, I've started to see these, you know, moments where like large cash position in a company, great revenue base, maybe the company's a little mismanaged, it's been managed for growth, not for cash flow, but this massive discipline that's come to the market all of a sudden the cuts, the hiring freezes from some of the big companies.
Share
26:55
You know, it feels like everybody took the medicine this time really fast. You know, like people realize we're in a downturn and public companies said we're stopping hiring, we're making cuts, We're gonna focus on free cash flow. Is this, is this the bottom, is this bouncing along the bottom?
Share
Josh Brown
27:10
What do you think?
Share
Michael Batnick
27:12
I think that there's, there's no indication that we've bottomed. I think you're going to have to unfortunately see inflation come down. I think it's really that simple.
Share
27:20
So you've seen companies take their medicine valuations reset very quickly. Austin Reef tweeted today just to give you an idea of how bad it is.
Share
27:27
How much would you pay for a company with 100 and 70 million monthly web visits. 50 million
YouTube
followers, a two day event with 60,000 attendees and an eight figure hot sauce brand. The company he was describing is
Buzzfeed
, Their market cap is $200 million dollars Jason. I know you're seeing deals in the private space that are multiple.
Share
Josh Brown
27:47
He's gonna he's gonna put us on hold and acquire Buzz Buzzfeed. Don't do that.
Share
Jason Calacanis
27:51
The thing is they have three or 400 million in revenue And they only have 50 million in cash left and they're losing money, they got 100 million.
Share
Josh Brown
27:58
Say, how much does it cost to produce that? That revenue?
Share
Michael Batnick
28:01
I wouldn't know but well we spoke, we spoke about this yesterday. If you look at the number of companies that are trading below their cash value and short term investments, it's at an all time high y as you know, much better than we do.
Share
28:11
All of these money losing companies have been subsidized by people like you and your peers and that game is over and it's not coming back tomorrow. And so it stands to reason that if you're bleeding money and it costs a ton of money to keep you in business, you will trade at a discount to what cash you have on hand or somebody could take this company over.
Share
Jason Calacanis
28:29
Like we're start with,
Zendesk
is being taken private with one, it's happening right now. I think that's gonna be the trend of the rest of the year because you look at
Zendesk
, they had this like hostile board members Kind of pushing them to take that $17 billion $10 billion 1.3 billion in revenue, 30% growth.
Share
Josh Brown
28:54
This seems like a great company, Jason, but but I know it feels like a failure for people maybe like an adventure world, but Let's keep in mind
Zendesk
when public in 2014 it was one of the first handful of unicorns.
Share
29:14
I don't think Fortune magazine did the unicorn cover until 2015, but I could be wrong, maybe it was 14, but that was one of the first and it was ridiculed, people said a billion dollars for a chat bot or whatever. So So getting a $10 billion dollar exit eight years later is not a failure. Like I know we wish it could have been more is higher, but that's a win.
Share
Jason Calacanis
29:40
It's a completely point. But what I look at is long term greed wise, the management team on the board, they, I think these private equity folks, I think just pressured them to give up because they made their lives so miserable, you know, couldn't they have because they were gonna also, by surveymonkey, you would think a company that was in a strong position.
Share
30:02
This isn't
Buzzfeed
in a weak position is a company in a strong position 30% growth. That's almost high growth, right? It's it's it's very respectable growth on a big number Why cash in your chips now? Why not keep going and I think it's because the private equity firms like we're gonna cut half the staff.
Share
30:17
We're gonna make this thing print 34, 500 million in profits a year and then we'll take it out again or sell it to Salesforce For 20 billion. And I think that's, we're gonna see.
Share
30:26
So somebody will buy, I think bank off for
Vox
will wind up buying, you can see a reverse merger. Maybe
Vox
does some kind of deal with
Buzzfeed
to go public and then they just got the
Buzzfeed
staff and make it profitable and put it with their collection.
Share
Josh Brown
30:42
So we, we've seen a trend of international billionaires by US, media assets from Overseas because It puts them immediately into the conversation in a way that they have influence from day one. So yeah, rather than hire pr firms and and try to get a message out or show up at Davos every year.
Share
31:06
Like if you own your own media outlet and it's got video, it's got print, it's got uh, subscription. Like you're, you're a player. People have to listen to what you have to say. So I mentioned Fortune before, I, fortunately I think is the best financial magazine of all time.
Share
31:26
And that was sold to a billionaire from somewhere in Asia. Nobody who they were criticizing and then he bought part of it one time.
Share
Jason Calacanis
31:39
Yes.
Share
Josh Brown
31:40
And the post.
Share
Jason Calacanis
31:42
Yeah. And then what's his name? Uh, media are started information that he's prepared started the intercept. So yeah it's a classic move. Media sucks as a business. Let's be honest.
Share
Josh Brown
31:53
Like the Journal Journalism unless you have an agenda unless you have a use for those assets beyond just advertising revenue. Well that's what this is to think about this.
Share
Jason Calacanis
32:04
Like we do media, we don't need to make money from it. We have other day jobs. So that's kind of like the ultimate sweet spot. That was the big beef at all in that we had this like little flare up because it became a business all of a sudden and we're like, you know what, our businesses are big outside of all in. Let's just make that a podcast.
Share
32:22
Four way split. We'll just do it once a week. We're not gonna do any events. We're not gonna do anything. Even with the great success of the event, the first event we did because we're like our other businesses are crushing it.
Share
32:33
Let's just do the pot every week and be the 25th, You know biggest episode of the week every week and that's enough. No advertising just go from there.
Share
Michael Batnick
32:41
Hey Jason getting back to to where we are on the market. I was listening to uh plain english with Derek Thompson had Connor sent on talking about like where we are in the cycle in 2008 and during the dot com bubble, by the time stocks were already, by the time stocks were down 20% we were already in a recession now the M. B. E. R.
Share
32:59
Didn't tell us we were but I think people knew that we were in a recession right now. It's happening so much quicker where the stock market is front running a recession. So you look at home builders for example The stocks are down 40%. They they have gross profit margins at an all time record high pretax income out of record high. But stocks don't get credit for what they did.
Share
33:20
They get credit or penalized for what they what the investors think the market is going to do. So I would say that if we do not get a recession stocks are very very attractive right now. But there is still a lot of price instability for the first time in basically our lifetime. And that matters a lot. The cost of capital matters a lot.
Share
Josh Brown
33:40
Hey Michael, Michael did this thing on his blog. Uh I don't know if we have the graphic to share but just the information is really valuable because uh it's it's a new environment for most people watching this stocks during. So when people say inflation is bad, it's actually not it's you need inflation because the alternative is worse disinflation.
Share
34:01
It's high inflation that's bad or quickly accelerated. So Michael broke it down into inflation regimes 0-2%, 4%. And there is a point at which historically the rubber meets the road and stock returns become deeply negative.
Share
34:19
The other interesting finding there, which Michael can, can explain is that Actually falling inflation no matter what level it's falling from is a really good tailwind for stocks. Even if it's falling from 8-6, it's actually beneficial.
Share
34:37
Like consumers have more money to spend because we're looking forward because the stock market is looking forward so for inflation. So it's like, so here's the number one thing before Michael goes, the number one thing about investing that might be different on Wall Street than Silicon Valley. The number one thing about public market investing and
Wall Street
, there's no such thing as good or bad.
Share
35:02
There was only ever better than expected or worse than expected. So get those two words good and bad. If you're gonna be a public market investor, eliminate those two words from your vocabulary, it doesn't exist. All that matters. Is okay, that sounds bad. But the expectations were so much worse.
Share
Michael Batnick
35:22
The asset rallies and real time interest rates, interest rates are the lifeblood of the economy and interest rates were at zero for a long, long time. And the only thing that mattered was top line growth, subscriber growth growth and we overdid it dramatically right at one point during the pandemic
Peloton
had a larger market cap than Metlife.
Share
35:44
30 40 million. Yeah, better than life zoom was bigger than Exxon mobil. So we clearly overdid it and then so we don't need to go into all the areas but we overdid it a lot and maybe we're over correcting on the downside right now. But a lot of these companies just on traditional metrics still don't appear to be like bargains. I know the stock price is down a whole lot.
Share
Josh Brown
36:04
Nike is a good example of that. Like it's, it's like one of the greatest companies in the world, one of the greatest companies in the history of of the consumer companies, they had a good earnings report. They actually beat on revenue and earnings. The problem is It was 23 times earnings when they reported and this is a market that is 16 probably on its way to 13 or 14.
Share
Jason Calacanis
36:27
Hey Tom S Bacher is here with us again. He's a senior sales manager at
Linkedin
marketing solutions and we're talking about their amazing report today and start up marketing as well as how to use
Linkedin
to grow your startup. What are some tactical things? Not big picture strategy. I'm talking tactics that founders can do today to figure out product market fit.
Share
Speaker 5
36:46
One of the big tactics we see here is amplifying organic posting with paid advertising. You consider a startup that raises a seed round, They post the news on their
Linkedin
page and see a bunch of likes clicks and follows come in.
Share
36:59
They follow that then with some updates about product and they see continued traction with for instance, HR benefit managers at tech companies that have fewer than 500 employees. That's a signal.
Share
37:11
And it becomes important to get a larger sample and to increase confidence, we've made it super easy to identify which audiences are engaging with your organic content, your
Linkedin
company, page your website and then extend reach into those segments with our best in class B two B ad targeting.
Share
37:28
So for early stage startups who amplify organic with paid, we see a 13 X lift in unique reach. Those are meaningful insights to help inform product and go to market strategies.
Share
Jason Calacanis
37:39
Such a great strategy had to Lincoln dot com sex this week in startups and get the report now. So you have an edge on your competitors and has a little pot sweetener $100 off your first marketing campaign. Thanks to calm and the team at
Linkedin
, go get that report and get the hunde.
Share
Josh Brown
37:53
We bottomed by the way, the S&P over the last, over the last five years historically, like during crises,
COVID
included has been bottoming at 14 times. So we're not that far away from crisis, we're Bouncing along the bottom.
Share
Jason Calacanis
38:08
I feel like we're bouncing along the bottom right now. If you were going to buy a company and hold it for 10 years. Like I've been looking at
Disney
, I've been wanting to get into
Disney
for a while, but it kind of spiked up and now it's under 100 again. And I was like, I think I'm going to buy some
Disney
more expensive than
Netflix
right now.
Share
38:28
I know, but they own Star Wars Pixar and marvel, like, and and our kids are going to Disneyland and our kids are not going to
Netflix
land, you know, we're kind of dark. I don't think we want to send them there for to work with the cartel's
Orange
is the New Black World. It's not a great exhibit. No, you don't want to spend time there.
Share
38:54
But yeah, I think this is the time if you were going to start building a position, because I hold things in decades, I take a decade long approach to stuff. I'm not like trading in and out of stuff yearly or you know, quarterly.
Share
39:05
God forsake not like by day, but I really do like to hold things for a decade and I feel like that could be like a decade long holding for me, We ran the numbers and
Disney
has actually underperformed the S&P 500 for for 30 over the last 30 years.
Share
Josh Brown
39:19
So all of the things about
Disney
that make it a great company, we could all cite those things, the parks, the kids connection with the characters in the end.
Share
39:31
Like abc suck If you, if you bought the S&P instead of
Disney
30 years ago, you did better. So buying hold is obviously great, but where you buy is gonna have a really big facebook facebook underperforming the NASDAQ since inception.
Share
Jason Calacanis
39:47
Crazy.
Share
39:49
I am. I think the subscription business that
Disney
is building has such amazing opportunities, I don't understand who's running product there, but you know, and they said this on
CNBC
and I almost got laughed at the show, I said they're gonna be bigger than
Netflix
, just watch like this, it's obvious to anybody who's looks like content that their content and I.
Share
40:06
P. Library will result in more subscribers ultimately on especially on a global basis where these characters transcend.
Share
Michael Batnick
40:12
Why do you say that?
Share
Jason Calacanis
40:15
I think anybody who's a parent who gets
Disney
will never unsubscribe because and so if you're a parent you're not going to subscribe and these things become timeless, like we watch
Star Wars
, My daughters who are six years old and 12 years old.
Share
40:31
They are now into Obi wan there into clone wars. Now we have that shared I. P. Marvel you're having shared I. P. We all grew up reading X men comic books uh and now we get we're gonna have the X men movies with the Avengers movies because they just got that license back and then
Pixar
like our kids or you know we kind of missed that one.
Share
40:50
Maybe we saw it, you know we're gen xers but
Pixar
transcends that and the
Disney
characters transcend that. So this idea that you could have a media company that subscription that that every generation can enjoy together to me is unprecedented in the world. Whereas
Netflix
is kind of long tail and pockets of like chappelle show's over here.
Orange
is the new Black Ozark.
Share
41:10
These appeal to it very different groups of people and I don't understand how incompetent
Disney
is that when you sign up for
Disney
plus at the end of the show, they don't play a trailer for the
Star Wars
experience and then have a one click purchase your tickets or you watched grow goo and you got introduced into baby Yoda spoiler alert, it didn't Upsell you on buying groggy for christmas.
Share
41:33
Those opportunities are coming in the app, in app purchases in app, typical purchases or I could subscribe and it would include like I could give them $1000 a year, I couldn't, but why couldn't
Netflix
sell us opium during those art like I saw today from from, from
Netflix
.
Share
Michael Batnick
41:56
Vox did this piece.
Share
Jason Calacanis
41:57
Netflix
subscribers are more likely to quit in the first month than any other streaming service is such a stupid decision binging was a great decision at the beginning cause it was new and novel, but you, none of these shows have the Buzzfeed uh you know, water cooler effect or ringer, you don't have the water cooler effect. Why not spread out Queen's gambit, why not spread out
Ozark
.
Share
Josh Brown
42:23
So we try to do that with the in the last two seasons of
Ozark
, they gave you half and half, they, they need to make it like sopranos, HBO max knows what they're doing.
Share
Jason Calacanis
42:36
HBO max is so much better than
Netflix
.
Disney
is great.
Share
Josh Brown
42:40
And they just out there that are better to just dump the whole season at once and and let the fans go crazy for super fans.
Share
Jason Calacanis
42:47
I would have loved to gotten Obi wan one drop, but because, because honestly this is embarrassing, but I forget what happened from one week to the next stage subtitles, are you turning on subtitles for game of Thrones? Because you can't understand what they're saying anymore. No, you're the reason they have the recap there. The rest of us hit skip, recap, Josh, it's for you, you're losing it.
Share
Josh Brown
43:18
So if you let me just put to put a button on this,
Disney
,
Disney
added 7.5 million subs last quarter, while
Netflix
lost 200,000 because I think it'll be right because when
Disney
goes into a new geography, they don't have to clear their throat and introduce themselves.
Share
43:42
These characters are universally known and loved the world over. And
Disney
can just basically say, hey, we're here, we're in your language, here's the price and it's done, it's done. So I'm with you on that.
Share
Jason Calacanis
43:56
Yeah, I mean look at everybody made fun of like
Disney
china, you know, I started, here's the problem, I'm married and if I start one of these shows, my wife, you know, they fall asleep and then you want to watch and then if you, if I watch the show, I'm cheating, this is cheating.
Share
Josh Brown
44:14
You know, if I go one episode ahead, this is the biggest my wife, it's not, oh, you know we're watching together though. She'll watch the old man. She's into it.
Share
Michael Batnick
44:23
Really.
Share
Jason Calacanis
44:25
My wife doesn't want to watch anything violent and that's like everything I love. I'm like exactly. I'm like, you want to watch Gladiator again. She's like, I can't watch that.
Share
Michael Batnick
44:36
You know, like anything Jason all these media is gonna kill paramount's getting destroyed, Warner brothers, discovery all of them.
Share
Jason Calacanis
44:42
It's a tough is also advertising in a recession gets walloped. So you know, it's and it starts with, you know, the weakest things outdoor and then tv and the thing that people go to is radio and we're getting, we're getting a question for you from our, from purple fans fans, Let's get some questions.
Share
Josh Brown
45:01
Purple fans want to know what you think about Robin Hood at this valuation.
Share
Jason Calacanis
45:06
I am holding my position. I was an investor before they went public. I had, man, I wish I could have distributed to my LPS at $30 a share.
Share
45:16
But I do think the world of the, of the founders and their ability to make great products. I know there were like some issues with like this massive denial of service attack where everybody wanted to short the same stock like this is what happens with successful companies. They become sometimes too successful, but I'm holding, I do think, I think we go up 20%.
Share
45:38
Yeah, I mean, I understand why he's not popular right now, but he's also a product genius and their product geniuses over there.
Share
45:45
It's very rare to be a product genius in the world.
Share
Josh Brown
45:48
That might not be good enough though. In a, in a brokerage industry.
Share
Jason Calacanis
45:52
Yeah.
Share
Michael Batnick
45:53
What's taking so long for Ira accounts to be opened? What's taking so long for them to get a cat on the platform? This seems to be such elemental stuff.
Share
Jason Calacanis
46:01
Yeah, I'm not sure what's going on. I don't have many insights. I don't talk to management now that it's like a public company all that often, but they should be, you know, releasing product fast. I think there's a lot of cleanup work that probably had to be done and a lot of management distraction, I would say.
Share
46:15
So when I was watching the
Uber
situation with Travis, once management gets distracted with, you know, all these folks, you know, you're, you're basically fighting wars every day lawsuits, investigations, depositions, whatever it happens to be internal turmoil while you're running a high growth company, this is incredibly challenging, incredibly challenging. Ellen goes through this from time to time.
Share
Michael Batnick
46:38
It's just the distraction level can get crazy with these lawsuits and I will say on the product side, I am, I use the platform and just from the usability enter dollar swipe up. There's nothing better.
Share
Jason Calacanis
46:51
Here's the thing that doesn't happen by accident when you have a flawless app that like just delights customers and you get what's called market pull in our industry.
Share
46:59
People are such incredible fans of the product, they tell their friends about it. You don't need to spend money on marketing, You're just acquiring customers because the market loves it so much has happened with
Uber
, it happened with Airbnb, it happened with google, it happened with facebook and instagram.
Share
47:12
It happened with
Tesla
, you know like
Tesla
sell themselves. They don't have to do any marketing. You get into
Tesla
, you're like, I want one. You know it's that simple and it's a delightful product.
Share
Michael Batnick
47:20
But can they survive a bear market a crypto winter? Like can they survive that?
Share
Jason Calacanis
47:25
They have I think we have a lot of cash.
Share
Michael Batnick
47:29
I'm sure they will survive. I mean can they thrive. Those are different questions.
Share
Jason Calacanis
47:32
I would it could be like a year or two of sideways. I mean but again I think in 10 year increments, if you There's no way I don't see the company having 50-100 million active accounts. 10 years from now.
Share
47:45
There's no way I don't see
Disney
having two or three times the number of accounts they have two or three years from now. There's no way Airbnb doesn't have twice as many customers and twice as many as 10 years from now.
Share
Josh Brown
47:55
Uh I think I think what's a reasonable bear case on Robin Hood even at today's valuation though and where it's different from all of those other examples that you cite if
Disney
gets a customer using a lot of their products it's not really hurting the customer. Like I see a million
Disney
movies, I have the app, I go to the park once a year.
Share
48:17
I'm a
Disney
. Like I love
Disney
. It's like a good thing if Robin Hood has a customer using its product a lot that customer is going to go broke. You cannot tell me that. So Robin Hood's incentive is what's good, what's good for Robin Hood is extremely active customers, lots of them and stock market bubbles.
Share
48:39
That is simultaneously the worst possible thing that can happen to its users. So they're literally sitting on the other side of the table and that's what separates them from a lot of the examples that you cite and I don't know how to do really well why it's quality customers do very well.
Share
Jason Calacanis
48:57
Yeah. My thesis on this, I've thought about this a lot. I have a thesis on it which is you know you get people who were interested in trading stocks. Maybe owning a share of
Tesla
owning a share of Apple. They want to participate. They get a little frisky. You know it's like somebody at a poker table and playing too many hands. Of course that's negative E. V.
Share
49:14
You want to start with the good cards and maybe you know get more money into the best hands as opposed to just flipping stuff. So I think what's happening is this next generation that people who are tuning in to us on
YouTube
. I think that that generation is going to be the most sophisticated financial generation ever because they got their asses walloped in crypto, they got involved in meme stocks and other nonsense.
Share
49:34
They're starting with an education that is absurdly high when you hang out with a bunch of millennials or gen z. S they understand shorting and they understand puts and calls to a level that you know most people in our generation didn't still don't understand and they're doing it so you learn by doing if you want to learn poker you gotta play poker, that's it.
Share
49:54
You wanna you wanna be good at gambling and you gotta lose money, that's the price. So I always tell people if you're starting angel investing or poker make the smallest bets possible play as much as possible.
Share
Josh Brown
50:05
Taking taking your concept though to its logical end point. Yeah so somebody learns a lot because they were a Robin Hood user in 20 and 21 they thought they were a genius this year this year. They said you know what I have learned a lot and the worst thing I can do is funnel orders to Robin Hood all day and trade against Robin Hood knows that as well and they have 401 Ks 5 20 nine's balanced portfolios and people doing well.
Share
Jason Calacanis
50:34
I I think there will be a super app of finance and I think Robin Hood has a chance of being it. I think there's a likely candidate.
Share
50:39
So imagine this generation opens up an app and they're getting their paycheck put in their their their checking accounts in their their 5 29 for their kids, in their their 401 Ks and their their iras in there and they're just doing tax optimization, tax loss harvesting. We were also shareholders in Wealthfront, which I think sold too early.
Share
50:57
But Wealthfront also kind of was educating people on that and they kind of had a little bit of an older generation you know using it.
Share
51:04
But you know, I think that these apps will come together and there will be super apps just like
Uber
sort of turning into a Super Robin Hood has a head start on something like a Sophie to be the, because most people are not gonna be a two horse race, It'll be a two or 3 horse race, of course you think it'll be those two or and there could be other ones that show up, you could see something like cash app that Jack's working on maybe expand right because I think he did, he had crypto to cash app.
Share
51:33
I think he did.
Share
Josh Brown
51:34
Do you worry about the seamlessness with which somebody can have their paycheck deposited into a financial super app and with one swipe, have that be in five different crypto coins like be that seamless. Should finance have no roadblocks at all, no friction.
Share
Jason Calacanis
51:53
I am a fan of people being able to do what they want with their money and learning hard lessons early.
Share
51:58
So I'm fine with it because the alternative is, you know what I saw when I first started working, you know in on down on
Wall Street
Installing laser printers in the late 80s and early 90s, which was people were taking their paychecks to a money cash checking place and they were paying 4% on their money to just get cash and then we go To a bar and we lose another 20% and then we wonder where our money was going.
Share
52:21
So yeah, if it goes into an investment app. Yeah, I think it's a much better thing than going to a cash checking place. I think poor people and people who are starting on the economic rung.
Share
52:30
Yes, they should be getting their money put into an investment app and at least having the option before they, you know, gamble it or spend it on beer or a night out. Yeah, maybe I could put some of it into Apple or
Disney
. Yeah, that might be a better outcome actually.
Share
52:45
And that's why I love what you guys do. You know here with the compound is you're educating people and you're demystifying it. We're having a conversation here. It's, you can actually, as a consumer have a reasonable discussion about
Disney
and then you can learn from, from guys like you or guys like me or other places.
Share
53:01
Yeah, there's some nuance here. What's the price earning? What's the average price earning? That's what we're trying to do on all and that's what I try to do on this week in startups. That's what you're trying to do here.
Share
53:08
It's not whenever finance gets super complicated, it's probably, there are some things that are complicated of course, but whenever it gets super complicated, it's probably cause somebody's running a Grift or a scam when people started to explain to me, So you can get 15%, by loaning out your Bitcoin.
Share
53:24
I was like, Okay, what's explained to me the scam, what's the Grift and like not a Grift, I'm like, Okay, who's paying the 15% interest?
Share
Josh Brown
53:31
What's the, no, what's the risk that I'm not seeing Exactly?
Share
Jason Calacanis
53:35
And counter party, counter party and people were doing off chain and they were also like giving you tokens, has your interest, we have a thing, you airline miles or something like that.
Share
Josh Brown
53:48
We have a thing that we talk about and Corey Hochstein I think is the person who has done the best job, like coining this phrase and and writing about it in depth, but we stole it.
Share
54:01
That risk can never be eliminated and it can only be transformed. So like so like you can, you can start off by saying, okay I'm gonna invest in such and such asset class, whatever, but I really don't like this particular risk, maybe it's the liquidity or maybe it's the risk of volatility or whatever.
Share
54:19
You can totally transform a volatility risk into a liquidity risk via hedges or whatever. Like there's a million ways that you can transform risk but you're always taking some kind of risk if there is a potential reward. And I think to your point like 1520 million Robin Hood users have learned that about a variety of different markets.
Share
Michael Batnick
54:42
I don't know if they really learned it but they experienced it definitely sometimes risk can be transformed in a positive way where you're not the person over. So for example illiquid investments, right? The marks that we all know are fake are sometimes in the in the investor's best interest. Of course they kept a lot of, even if they wanted to, but Cliff Asness causes volatility laundering.
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Josh Brown
55:04
So another so so so in other words I am at risk. The risk I have though is not volatility because I can't sell anyway. The risk I have is I just can't get access to my capital.
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Jason Calacanis
55:15
We consider this a feature in private markets. So you know, one of the ways people got really rich with
Uber
was Travis didn't let people sell and he controlled the secondary market of
Uber
shares with an iron fist.
Share
55:28
And then some people in the early round, like I was, we had certain rights to our shares where we could sell them. And you know, there were people who were contemporaries of mine who sold that 234 billion and I had people banging my door to sell my shares.
Share
55:41
Listen, it was a lot of money for me at the time. I'm glad I held. You know, uh there were 10 X. Is to a car 20 access to car after that. So you know, holding is, sometimes a feature not a bug.
Share
55:54
And that's how venture firms work.
Share
55:56
Venture firms, you got, you put your money in and you find out 10 years later how you did. That's why, you know, endowments like them. It's like I can just put this money away. I trust this fund manager in 10 years, I'll find out how I'm doing. That's that's not a park that most people want.
Share
56:10
But it does take out all volatility. We send our LPS a note every year. Here's a very conservative estimate of what this stuff is worth, but please ignore, feel free to ignore all of these reports audits, Mark ups and just look at cash in cash out, I'm in 20 plus venture funds, some of the most famous ones in the world And I just like cash in cash out, I put in 100,000.
Share
56:32
How much they get out. What would I have done in the market? I just set these, I call them wealth bombs. You put 100 k. K. Into one of these venture firms.
Share
56:40
I'll find out in 10 years. Did I did I had two X. Or did I 10 X. And sometimes we two or three X. Sometimes you 10 X. Sometimes the 20 X. And I kinda like that way of investing.
Share
56:51
But I'm actually coming around to public markets now that everything is so low Because you start looking at some of these valuations like
Peloton
at three billion with 900 million in quarterly revenue. I know they're running out of cash and it's been mismanaged and it's a show in so many different ways.
Share
57:06
But the new manager seems pretty good If they can get some cash. I don't know why this thing hasn't been bought yet. Why is pellet on sitting out? There are three billion.
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Josh Brown
57:14
Yeah.
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Jason Calacanis
57:15
Why didn't somebody buy it yet?
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Josh Brown
57:17
Because the cops are impossible for the next decade unless we're gonna have a pandemic. Another one. That's why they will never have a year as good as 20 ever.
Share
57:27
But before.
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Jason Calacanis
57:29
3 4 billion in revenue.
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Michael Batnick
57:31
I mean Watching $3 billion dollar company.
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Jason Calacanis
57:33
That makes total sense.
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Josh Brown
57:35
What's the rush? But what's the rush? Look at the trajectory. So why would you point? Right. Yeah.
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Jason Calacanis
57:42
Wait yeah, we're playing some like game of chicken here. Like who's going to do this mirror got bought by lulu.
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Josh Brown
57:53
I don't know what they paid, but I already could pretty much mentally guarantee that's a write off at some point. Like, like uh so like what's the, what's the, what's the unless you unless Nike thinks Adidas is gonna buy it? What why would they be in a rush? I guess I guess.