Monday, Oct 17, 2022 • 23min
9. How To Become A Space Diplomat, With Simonetta Di Pippo
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Today we’re focusing our gaze to the stars, as we're speaking with a space diplomat on the frontier of supporting space exploration. This is for any listener who loves space and wants to learn more about the space economy, diplomacy and career opportunities in this field.
Here’s our conversation with Simonetta Di Pippo, Director of the Space Economy Evolution Lab at SDA Bocconi School of Management, as well as Honorary President and Co-Founder of Women in Aerospace and Formerly the Director of the Office for Outer Space Affairs at the United Nations.
Referenced links: “The race to reinvent the space station” – The Financial Times https://www.ft.com/content/f50fba1d-5f03-4035-8302-535319f9338c Space4Women – https://space4women.unoosa.org/
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Talking about
Speakers
(4)
Simonetta Di Pippo
Virginia Stagni
Francesco Marconi
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Transcript
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Simonetta Di Pippo
00:01
Space
can be a tool for maintaining peace not only in orbits, but also on Earth.Share
Virginia Stagni
00:11
This is The Talent Show, a new podcast series from FT Talent, a hub of innovation from the
Financial Times
hosted by under-thirties for the under-thirties around the world. This first series is in partnership with Bocconi University
, a leading higher education institution of business and managerial advancements. I am Virginia Stagni and this is the guide you need to drive innovation and change.Share
00:41
Today we are focusing our gaze to the stars as we're speaking with a space diplomat on the frontier of supporting space exploration. This is for any listener who loves space and wants to learn more about the space economy, space diplomacy and career opportunities in this field.
Share
00:57
Here is our conversation with simulated the people director of the space economy evolution lab at School Of Management as well as the honorary president and co-founder of Women In Aerospace and formerly the Director of
the Office For Outer Space Affairs
at the United Nations.Share
01:19
Thank you so much for being here with us. It's really a pleasure to have you at the talent show with the
Bocconi University
. I know you are connected from the Bocconi Studio, how are you today?Share
Simonetta Di Pippo
01:29
Quite fine. Everything is going well and thank you very much for having me.
Share
Virginia Stagni
01:34
We know that you're going to be very inspiring for our audience and our listeners today. We are very curious about your journey, how you got interested in your field, how you started, how was your first fire of curiosity towards your field?
Share
Simonetta Di Pippo
01:50
That is not a specific moment, I can really cherry-pick. I can't list few moments in my life that may probably have been the recipe for the decision and the choices I made.
Share
02:04
I was 10 years old when the first two human beings landed on the moon and walked on the moon and it was really inspiring the sign that humanity can do great things when we use our ingenuity and creativity to foster innovation.
Share
02:23
At the same time I was a reader of a lot of different no science fiction books because up to a certain point in my life I didn't like too much science fiction, but you know
Jules Verne
and these kind of books. When I was not particularly happy or I had to take some decisions in my life when I was young - and still this is true now - I had this habit of closing myself in my room at home and I was reading and reading and reading and reading.Share
02:54
And so I developed quite a strong interest in science, science in general. And so what I knew for sure was that I wanted to find a job allowing me every morning to wake up happy to do what I was doing, and at the same time something that could have been helpful for me in learning every single day, something new. What can I say I believe I succeeded.
Share
Virginia Stagni
03:20
You definitely did but you use keywords that I have been listening from other experts from very different fields and mainly entrepreneurs. So you talked about ingenuity, creativity to foster innovation. You just talk about learning every single day for your field, your expertise and I guess as well your teams and your colleagues.
Share
03:41
What do you think early career professionals that want to build their career in business can learn from astrophysics as well from space, from what is your expertise?
Share
Simonetta Di Pippo
03:52
If you don't go a little bit in the details, it may sound strange that an astrophysicist with my background because you know after the university, I've been working at
the European space Agency
as Director of Human Spaceflight, and then I've been leading the Office For Outer space Affairs
at the United Nations for eight years. From being a scientist, I complimented that part with certain knowledge and management of complex international programs.Share
04:23
Then I moved to Astro diplomacy, so space diplomacy. How to use
space
as a tool for maintaining or hopefully maintaining peace on Earth.Share
04:35
At certain points in time in my life I developed let's say the idea that now that we are entering in a second phase of the space here with the private and the commercial blooming of activities with the fact that there are a lot of technologies which have been developed thanks to public money from government money now available and mature enough for developing what we call space economy.
Share
05:04
And allow me to say that when we talk about space economy, this is quite important, The overall set of activities involving not only the classical space sector, which means developing a spacecraft launchers and the ground segments, But on top of that is all the value created by the activities developed in terms of services and applications and products.
Share
05:30
Thanks to space-based data and infrastructures, the overall value today is estimated at around four under the and $70 billion. While we are talking about the so-called trillion economy.
Share
05:44
Now you cannot look at the education in this field as it was done in the past. If you are an engineer, if you are a scientist, you do need to have a lot of knowledge in management, in creating business plans, work together with all the cultures around the world because science and space is international by definition.
Share
06:08
So you need to have a broad knowledge also of diplomacy. You need to have a bit of knowledge of international space law, because you cannot launch a satellite if you don't respect the rules, treaties, the norms of the principles.
Share
06:22
If you want to become an expert in the field - I mean to have success in your activities - you need to have quite a holistic view of the various sub fields in
space
. And that's what we're trying to do here trying to be really at the forefront of the research that you can do in this field, here in Bocconi
School of Management, and also trying to integrate all the disciplines in a crosscutting way.Share
06:49
And this is not done in any other place in the world, at least to my knowledge. And so that's the reason why I accepted the challenge and I decided to join the Bocconi School Of Management.
Share
Virginia Stagni
07:02
You mentioned something about being extra diplomat. So spacey diplomacy, I guess that most of our listeners do not really know what does it mean? Would you be able to explain it to us please, in simple terms?
Share
Simonetta Di Pippo
07:17
Space diplomacy is an extrapolation of what we call science diplomacy. Most of the experiments, the biggest merriment, the ones which really advance our knowledge. Just an example on Earth served in
Geneva,
dealing with particles, where you have plenty of countries and so many scientists working together for the same goal in a very peaceful manner.Share
07:42
If you extrapolate this concept to
space
and you look for example, at the International Space Station
. While the International Space Station
is a huge lab in orbit, which means more or less 400 km above our heads, has been built by 14 countries, by 14 space agencies.Share
08:02
The Russians, the Americans, the Canadians, the Europeans, 10 countries through
the European space Agency,
and the Japanese. And currently more than 80 countries have been able to perform experiments on board the International Space Station
.Share
08:19
And you have on a permanent basis a crew of six individuals who are coming from different countries and they have to work and live together and they have to work together and support each other. This is an example of how space can be a tool for maintaining peace not only in orbits, but also on Earth!
Share
08:42
So it's a sort of a test bench is a lab for peace because in a way you have to work together and to support each other if you want to survive.
Share
08:53
Sometimes you have Russian reaching the space station through an American spacecraft, and then you have Americans or Japanese or Europeans or Canadians flying with the Russian spacecraft, to the
space
station.Share
09:09
If you think about the current situation in geopolitical terms on Earth and then you compare this with what is happening right now at the same moment on the
International Space Station
, you see the value of what we call the space diplomacy.Share
09:24
On top of that you have also not only national space agencies and national space programs, but you have a good example in Europe with
the European space Agency,
where you have 22 countries working together to advance knowledge thanks to collaborations, is really intergovernmental.Share
09:43
22 countries and if you move to the United Nations while you have 100 and 93 member states working together. And all the rules, the norms, the principles and the guidelines for maintaining the long-term sustainability of the space environment is really agreed by consensus by all the countries. The same countries, which may have not the same position on everything - let's postulate that in in very diplomatic terms - on Earth.
Share
Virginia Stagni
10:11
You talk just now about supporting each other, and there is one thing that definitely women have been doing in the last decades a bit more evidently trying to support each other in the business and scientific field. You definitely have been a leading figure and of course professional when it comes to to really try to bridging the gender gap in the
STEM
and in the space sector.Share
10:36
You know, I read and knew about what you have been doing at the U. N. Office for
Outer space Affairs
where you developed the space for Women project.Share
10:45
If you had it at the beginning of your career a project like that, would it ever help you?
Share
Simonetta Di Pippo
10:50
Well, yes and no. The point is that I'm really against any type of discrimination. While I was in
Italy
at the Italian Space Agency
and I perceived a bit of discrimination being a woman in a male environment, I thought that this was only an issue related to our country.Share
11:13
Then I got the position of Director of Human Spaceflight and I moved to the
Netherlands
. Immediately I realized that it was not true, that I was completely wrong. The issue with different nuances. It was the same there.Share
11:26
And you know, I moved to
the European space Agency
, which means that we had more than 22 nationalities, because on top of the 22 countries which are members of the European space Agency
, there are also a few associated countries. So there was quite a variety of cultures and issues. But the issue of gender representation was exactly the same.Share
11:50
That's the reason why in 2009, together with the German colleague the CEO of a company in
Germany
, we decided to create this Women in Aerospace Europe Association with the main goal of creating a platform for the youngest to be connected with senior and leaders of female gender. But not only the association is open to everyone because, as I said, I'm against discrimination.Share
12:17
And so this was very good not for me, or for the founders, or for the senior, but was really helpful for the youngest because they could get a lot of advice and hints from us.
Share
12:29
That's the reason why I say yes and no. I believe that when I started there was nothing like that, and so you had really to fight quote and unquote "to find your own way", and in particular to keep your approach to keep your style alive and not trying to simulate or emulate the attitude of others, which was probably the most difficult part.
Share
12:55
But I decided since the very beginning that I didn't want to change any single small element of my approach.
Share
Virginia Stagni
13:02
Some colleagues of us here at the
Financial Times
wrote a very interesting piece recently about NASA
exploring the possibilities of allowing companies to manufacture items in space
, given the fact that of course there is a different gravity. Do you think this will happen in the near future?Share
Simonetta Di Pippo
13:20
Well this is the famous "made in space" and it's happening already. Fiber optics for example are already manufactured in
space
. Even you can print and cook pizza on the space station with a 3D printer and you can eat pizza in space, made in space. Now it may sound as a joke but in reality, again, is a way for using the International Space Station
as a test bench for new technologies for new ways of doing things.Share
13:52
And clearly you may also consider that there is another branch quite extremely important which is the extraction of resources from celestial bodies. It may be the moon, it may be asteroids in the main belt.
Share
14:08
I always make the example of an asteroid called "
16 Psyche
". The estimated value is 70,000 times the current global value of economy - let's say the global economy value right now. Why? Because it's made of gold, there is platinum and there is quite a good reserve of rare earth which are extremely important for all the IT tools and objects that we use every single moment in our life.Share
14:41
So in reality space economy when we talk about becoming a trillion economy, sometimes if all of this is going to happen, well it's even underestimated.
Share
Virginia Stagni
14:54
Let's imagine that I'm a student and as many of our listeners are so one of our listeners might come here to the show and you know, listen to you and be kind of inspired in terms of that angle that you took on being space diplomat.
Share
15:08
But I think it's really, really interesting for our listeners. What would you advise these students should be leveraging on studying at the moment, specifically at the beginning of their expertise research and then potentially career?
Share
Simonetta Di Pippo
15:24
As I mentioned already, each of us has to find the main topic of interest, so that they can vertically go in the details and have an expertise on the topic. It may be engineering and maybe science, finance of space activities, space law, etcetera.
Share
15:44
But then this is not enough, because you cannot be a scientist, for example, if you want to launch an instrument on a satellite, where for sure you need to have an international team working with you. So you do need to have a bit of diplomatic skills.
Share
16:03
Then you have to present a proposal as our to a space agency to be approved and to get the money to develop your instrument. Which means that you need not only to be a good scientist, but you need also to have a bit of knowledge from an engineering perspective, because then you're going to follow the development of the instruments which is supposed to provide you with the data you need to do your research.
Share
16:29
And so at that point you also need to be able to develop a good business plan and also to manage this international group. And you're not going to launch an instrument, for example, to Mars if you're not respecting all the planetary protection rules. And so you also need to have a certain experience in international space law.
Share
16:53
That's just an example to say that whatever field you select, you do need to have a broad understanding of all the other fields and that's exactly what we want to do.
Share
Virginia Stagni
17:06
Thank you very much for sharing this. And as you know, the special part of this talent show here, the
Financial Times
is having some of the challengers so early career professionals and students from all over the world to ask some questions to our experts.Share
17:21
We have for you two questions: one is from Francesco and the other one is from iman Francesco over to you, and Simonetta then it's your time for answers.
Share
Francesco Marconi
17:33
Hello, my name is Francesco Marconi and I was a participant of the FT Talent Made in Italy Challenge in 2022. I'm from
Italy
but currently living in the US.Share
17:42
I'm an aerospace engineer, I've worked in the space sector in space, but I'm currently doing a PhD at
Stanford University
. My question to professor is the following:Share
17:53
The space economy has seen record growth in the last years fueled by private investors, funds and VCs, rushing in to bet on what looks like a rapidly growing and promising market. But do you believe this growth will be sustainable in the long run and will be matched by sufficient demand in space technologies and services, or could this be somewhat of a bubble?
Share
18:12
I'm glad to be featured in this episode. I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts. Thank you.
Share
Simonetta Di Pippo
18:18
Thank Francesco. Well, no, it's not the bubble I believe is really sustainable but it's linked to a certain number of things that need to happen. One is that we do need to maintain the long term sustainability of outer space.
Share
18:35
You know that orbits are really congested right now and even if in 2007 the U. N., the Committee On The Peaceful Uses Of Other space approved the Space Debris Mitigation Guidelines that most of the countries in particular, the biggest space-faring countries are really following the rules, I would say 100%.
Share
18:56
Still you can have some troubles, you may have planned everything properly to reenter your satellite at the end of its lifetime as expected by the space debris mitigation guidelines and something can happen.
Share
19:10
For example, could be the European space agency satellite that is currently tumbling in orbit due to a miscalculation on the amount of fuel on board, for example. Or other issues that you may encounter.
Share
19:25
And this is absolutely mandatory If If we want to maintain this blooming space economy. Because if you are an operator in
space
, you want to be sure that your business plan can be fulfilled in operational terms.Share
19:39
So if you are expecting that your satellite or your constellation is staying in orbit for let's say 10 years, well you need to be sure that this is going to happen and that your consolation or your satellite or your ask it's in orbit are not, let's say put in danger by potential collisions with debris or with other satellites not under control.
Share
19:60
So space economy is strongly linked to the long term sustainability of other space activities, which means the private operators are really keen to follow the rules, which is a good element in the picture.
Share
20:12
So yes, I believe that there is money, the market is there, we need coordinated governance, at global level, strategy, at global level and we need to develop the talents we need otherwise with the strategy and with the money only we cannot do what we need to do.
Share
20:32
So space economy is strongly linked to long-term sustainability, strategy global level together with governance, and the education of the good talents and leaders of the future in this field.
Share
Virginia Stagni
20:44
Thank you very much Simonetta, and from Iman, we got the second question for you.
Share
Iman Sheikh
20:50
Hello, my name is Iman Sheikh and I was a participant of the FT Talent Challenge in 2021.
Share
20:56
I'm currently living in London which is also where I'm from, and I've just graduated from
King's College London
with a degree in Philosophy Politics and Economics. My question to Professor Simonetta the people is:Share
21:08
How do you see the future of space travel changing well commercialization and tourism be a bigger trend and how do you think future space travel will align with achieving the U. N. sustainable development goals? Thank you so much and I'm looking forward to hearing from you.
Share
Simonetta Di Pippo
21:22
Thank you for your question and allow me to give you three takeaways. The first one is that there are plenty of studies in the world trying really to see how a mission can be reduced when we launch satellite and this is mainly on the type of fuel that we are going to use: plenty of studies. So I'm quite confident that this will be taken into serious consideration by most of the operators.
Share
21:49
Second one: you can monitor the climate crisis and the parameters linked to you know the monitoring of what is happening in terms of climate in terms of let's say changing unfortunately our world due to the climate crisis, but let's say most of the variables, essential variables that we have to monitor, can only be monitored from
space
so without satellites we cannot really understand what is happening to our planet in terms of global warming and impact of the climate crisis.Share
22:20
Last but not least: the use of space for agriculture and for a lot of other topics. And in particular if you look at the Sustainable Development Goals, you have 17 Sustainable Development Goals and 169 targets. More than 50% of these objectives and these targets can only be achieved with
space
. In other words, without space, the Sustainable Development Goals cannot be reached.Share
22:47
As I said, I could talk 24 hours about these topics, but these are already three important, let's say, pillars of what
space
can do for sustainable development.Share
Virginia Stagni
22:59
Simonetta, thank you so much because there is one thing that always amazed me when I have a chance to talk to experts like you, is that you can put in very simple terms over complicated issues and facts. So I really want to thank you for that too, Simonetta and thank you for your time of course.
Share
Simonetta Di Pippo
23:15
Thank you for having me.
Share
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Simonetta Di Pippo
Virginia Stagni
Francesco Marconi
Iman Sheikh