Tuesday, Apr 5, 2022 • 27min
Emma Langford: Grassroots Hustle
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Ever wondered about how best to build up your musical presence in your local scene? What about on a basic level: how to make a living with your creative gifts outside of gigging? Join us as we launch our first ever artist interview with Limerick, Ireland's own Emma Langford. Emma is a folk musician with many pearls of wisdom to share on these and and a variety of other topical subjects like, "how do I make room for my mental health in my music career?" and much more.
The Mix is a Musixmatch Pro podcast.
All music content for this episode was composed and produced by Pierfrancesco Melucci.
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(2)
Emma Langford
Cari Quoyeser
Transcript
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Emma Langford
00:00
Everyone needs a clear sort of a pull line, you know, a tagline that tells people who they are and those people what they're buying. If you're striving to be at the top of the ladder and that's your only goal and it's not about building your team and building your community, you know, you might get to the top of that ladder, but you're going to be standing up there on your own.
Share
00:18
It's gonna be pretty lonely place, like at the core of your being, you'll always be who you are, but like the way you can grow creatively through having those contacts, you can't put a value on that, it's amazing work.
Share
Cari Quoyeser
00:28
Hello and welcome, you're listening to Artists Interviews on The Mix, a
Musixmatch
Pro podcast hosted by me, Cari Quoyeser
, the Artist Community Manager here at Musixmatch
and fellow musician. This week I had the pleasure of speaking with Emma Langford
from Limerick Ireland
. Emma
is a master songwriter and storyteller and she shared with me her thoughts on community identity, mental health, and innovative new ways to monetize your creative talents. I hope you enjoy.Share
00:58
Hi
Emma
, how are you?Share
Emma Langford
01:02
Hey
Cari
, I'm good, I've got a lovely, tasty cup of coffee in front of me.Share
01:07
All the same as this, but I have a baby cup.
Share
Cari Quoyeser
01:09
So, I'm really excited to have a because I would like to say that like fans of yours are so devoted, and after having played shows with you and getting to know you on more of a personal level and then going to see you play, I'm on the
Emma Langford
hype train and there, there's are so many reasons for that I definitely want to get into and ask you about, I see you as this grassroots machine, that is really such a champion of your hometown, of your Irish roots, being from Limerick
.Share
01:42
I'm always seeing something about
Limerick
associated with you, seeing local businesses that you support local charities and the result of that is you have this just super devoted fan base that is so excited for everything you're doing, not to mention your music is beautiful and lovely and really represents your culture well. But being a musician from Ireland,
from Limerick
specifically, how does that factor into the business that you run? How big is community?Share
Emma Langford
02:09
I think, like the way I run my, like, let's say my career as a business is very much as you say, like a grassroots local thing. So yeah, being from
Limerick
and having all of those amazing business connections and stuff, it's just, it's a lovely safety blanket. It's a lovely, warm, warm hug.Share
02:27
Like it's, it's that like, hand on your shoulder when you go out and do scary things that, you know, you're going to have the support of all these amazing people behind you and it emboldens you and it allows you to try things and to do things, and to approach things you might not otherwise approach if you didn't feel you had that safety and support around you.
Share
02:46
So that's a big factor in how, let's say I approach the industry and then in songwriting and music making, it's more of a globalist kind of approach, I suppose, in terms of my community. So I have a lovely following on
Patreon
and on Twitter and on Facebook
and I mean lovely as in like, huge. But lovely as in they're really kind, and they're very interactive and engaged and when I come to them with something new that I'm not a hundred percent sure about them, like, you know, here's a rough draft of a song I'm working on right now.Share
03:17
Here's kind of what I want to achieve with it, here's what inspired it, what do you guys think? And you know, I won't just get people being like, oh yeah, it's great. It's amazing. I love it will have some people with like feedback, and ideas of their own about like how I've approached it and like what they can hear instrumentally when they listen to it. And that's really cool. It's really cool to have that in terms of a community online, which is for the past two years being really important that our communities migrated online and we had to evolve to work with that.
Share
03:46
And then I guess over the past two years as well, I've been putting out there that I've really struggled with songwriting and music making. And as a result, I wound up with these really cool collaborations and co writes and just, I suppose ways of making music that I wouldn't really have had before, and that's just kind of come out of reaching out and connecting with people and finding those relationships, those really nice, trustworthy relationships. So, it's not just about like, "I like what you do, we should work together." It's like, "I like what you do, and we got on really well and I trust you, we should work together."
Share
Cari Quoyeser
04:22
So those are two things I wanted to touch on specifically with you because I think they're unique to your journey and the music industry now, like the templates thrown out the window, we're all doing things differently. And just one of the reasons I want to talk to you so much is because I think you're doing it so well and that there are a lot of artists that could learn from the kind of steps you're taking. And the first one being, you found your audience, your niche and you have this really authentic connection with them. You're not trying to push out content mindlessly. Everything seems intentional and everything has a purpose.
Share
04:58
And so, when you interact on Instagram and
Facebook
, it has like a very specific tone to it that seems authentically yourself and it doesn't seem like it's showboating. And I have the added benefit of knowing this from having met you in person and talk to you, you're just really dead on. This isn't the persona that you put out there of like, oh, I'm kind of quirky and I'm, you know, but here's my music.Share
05:24
You genuinely have authenticity flowing out from you. And the other thing I want to mention. So, one being social media, you're doing such a good job at that. I want to ask, like, what sort of recommendations you have for that.
Share
05:37
But on the other end of things, I see you plugged into so much and in the industry the way it is now, how are you finding new ways of monetizing your craft? Like, with these collaborations, musical or otherwise, because no one is just like, I'm making music from playing and selling records anymore, which you do well, but I can see you have your hands in a million different pots.
Share
Emma Langford
05:60
Yeah, yeah. It's actually I've had so many anxiety dreams for the past couple of weeks about exactly that. Like, I had a dream where I was on stage at a show that I was meant to be playing, but I didn't know I was meant to be playing it and I had, had no idea what the chords and lyrics were. So, I had, like, my phone on, like, stuck between my knees was trying to hold that microphone under that between my legs. And I was playing the guitar and someone was trying to have a conversation with me at the same time, and I was like, whoa, what could this dream possibly be about? And I woke up in a cold sweat.
Share
06:29
So, you know, it's, it's really easy to wind up getting like really over. I think at the moment we're all so determined to pull ourselves back up out of this rush and to get going again and to, to be out there and so, there's a lot going on and there's a lot to juggle, and then on top of that, of course, that's just the way the world is moving forward always and social media keeps changing. So, the one place I'm not plugged into is
TikTok
, I have not mastered that yet, but it's, it's a whole other world. Like, I love TikTok
, I think it's a really cool platform. I think the way people are editing stuff and learning to self record, and do like overlaid like designs and graphics and stuff and like it's so cool. I just, it's a whole other world that have gotten into. But I guess with social media, my main guidance to anyone is to, to do a lot of trial and error and find your voice that way.Share
07:30
Like, your social media voice is going to be your own authentic voice. But how you express that is different from one artist to another, and from one person to another. So, for me, it's a little chaotic. And a bit sporadic, and it's not planned, they don't really do scheduled posts or anything like that. My main focus is on being intentional, posting about things that I really care about. So, not jumping on every issue as it comes up, because not every issue, not every fight is my fight, but when things matter to me, speaking out about it and engaging my audience about that and getting a sense of where the community is at with it. And I suppose trying to think about deeply about how we can actually contribute to it as artists.
Share
08:17
How are alternative perspectives on things might be able to help society, as opposed to just jumping in on one side or the other, trying to find the nuance in conversations and engage in that way.
Share
Cari Quoyeser
08:27
Totally
Share
08:28
So, that's that's kind of my, that's been my approach. And there's been times when I've I will say I've probably been too honest with people. And I'm learning now to put up a little bit more of a wall to kind of protect myself because you should only give away so much of yourself, you need to draw lines between your business and your personal life.
Share
08:47
Self-preservation, absolutely.
Share
Emma Langford
08:48
Yeah, it's so important. Because if you don't do that, it's not so much about your audience, but it's about yourself. If you don't do that, if you don't draw those lines, it becomes very difficult to find space for yourself, that is just yours. And that becomes, as your profile grows, that becomes increasingly important.
Share
Cari Quoyeser
09:06
So, this isn't where I was going with that, but this is such a helpful point as well to so many artists right now that people think that being an artist means carving out a lot of your day to do nothing, but in fact, you're on all the time?
Share
Emma Langford
09:19
Oh, yeah.
Share
Cari Quoyeser
09:19
And you feel constantly like you need to respond to every bit of noise coming from all of the different platforms. So, what you're saying is really, really important for the mental health of artists as well.
Share
Emma Langford
09:30
Yeah, absolutely. Carve out that space for yourself, not just in your day. And like, I don't just mean like, make time to have a cup of tea and read a book, but like have lines that you don't cross into your business life, you know, have things you don't talk about. There are some, some things that are just for you, and just for the people you love and one hundred percent trust. And that it's important to have that, there is a sense of as well from, the wider public, a sense of ownership over anyone who shares any bit of their personal life with the world, through their art or through their social media, whatever it is.
Share
10:04
And at the end of the day, what people are seeing of you should only be twenty percent of who you are as a person.
Share
Cari Quoyeser
10:12
Really.
Share
Emma Langford
10:12
And that's not in a marketing way or a cynical way, but just minding yourself way. Because there's gonna be times when you want to step away from your job, and just live your life. And if you've given everything yourself to the public, that's going to be incredibly hard to do. So, that I suppose is a big, big thing for me with, with socials that I've learned.
Share
Cari Quoyeser
10:34
Hi there, thanks so much for listening to The Mix. Unfortunately, we had a small technical issue with
Emma's
mic, but thankfully we were able to get back together a few days later and I'm so glad we did because in her typical fashion, Emma
came through with some pearls of wisdom and truly memorable anecdotes. Without further ado, here's Emma Langford
.Share
10:59
If I could choose one word to describe your career, it would be inclusive. So, in the way you approach social media and the way you approach your fans and your community, specifically your community in
Ireland,
it seems like whenever you go on this journey, you're taking people with you. Along the narrative of being a storyteller, you're actually, you can tangibly see how your success is growing each year and you pull up your hometown with you. Like what I've noticed-Share
Emma Langford
11:27
It's yeah, it's always been important to me. And it's also good business, you know, it's good business to do that, like you're you're not going to survive in this industry if you're striving to be at the top of the ladder and that's your only goal and it's not about building your team and building your community. You know, you might get to the top of that ladder, but you're gonna be standing up there on your own, it's gonna be a pretty lonely place. So, and you know, you can't go any further than that, then there's no, you know, you've hit this roof on your own without anyone around you helping you grow and become the different person, you have the potential to be and not in a like at the core of your being, you'll always be who you are, but like, the way you can grow creatively through having those contacts and
Friends
around you and people having conversations with you, is you can't put a value on that. It's amazing work.Share
Cari Quoyeser
12:17
I imagine things have changed a lot since the pandemic started, but like before the pandemic, were your primary revenue streams coming in from live performances? And how has that changed? And how are you making it work now? Do you have any advice for that?
Share
Emma Langford
12:39
Yeah. So before the pandemic, it would have been mostly gigs and I would say like seventy percent gigs and then thirty percent merchandise sales of CDs and vinyl and T-shirts and stuff. And when gigs stopped happening, I stopped focusing on producing merchandise. So, because any artist will know that the process of designing and ordering and shipping merchandise is a whole process in itself. Like that's, that's its own ordeal and I stopped making that a priority. Now I have CDs that I sell at shows and stuff and I sell them in stores and I sell them online, but I don't make them my priority.
Share
13:20
And since the pandemic came in, my focus was a lot more on how I can connect with people online and how I can be self-sufficient as a self-contained unit. So, when I'm at home in my apartment, what work I can be doing here? That isn't necessarily virtual gigs because oh my God, they're hard, drive me insane.
Share
Cari Quoyeser
13:41
I imagine being like a virtual comic, like how horrible that would be to navigate.
Share
Emma Langford
13:47
I kind of like I, so much of my life shows rests on the audience reacting, and rests on my storytelling and feeling the room and getting a sense of who we have in the room kind of thing. And if I can't do that, it's a different show. You know, it's a totally different show and that's fine as well. I've learned that a large amount of my virtual concerts became sort of mindfulness experiences for a lot of people.
Share
14:13
So, I leaned into that a bit more and turned them more into sort of a folk tale retelling and a little bit of backstory to the songs, but there was, you know, it was different and I don't know if it's the side of my creative personality that I embrace as much as I do, my life personality. So, I learned a lot about that and started taking commissions like these. I got this mad commission for this girl was doing a musical theater concept album and she wanted, I've never done this before, and she wanted me to record for the part of the lead, like fair, not fairy Princess and like, warrior Princess.
Share
14:54
This like, it was really cool and it was like, musical theater is what I grew up wanting to do. Like, it was a dream, like I had manifested this years ago, it's like if anyone wants an Irish warrior princess for any musical theater stuff, let me know, I'm here. I would love to do it, that is my jam.
Share
15:12
And this girl that came out of nowhere and had written a musical and wanted me to voice Ayden Cara, the Irish warrior Princess. So, I had to learn very quickly how to self record, and I'd to buy the appropriate equipment. So I couldn't have asked the-, like, you know, the gear, the mics, the interface, the soundproofing, all of that. I couldn't have asked, I had to do it if I was going to do it. So, and learning to EQ my own vocals as well and be in control of all of that of my own sound and how I wanted to present myself to people was something I learned very fast.
Share
15:46
So yeah, I did that, and then you just wind up with random gigs like that, really, stuff, tapes stuff.
Share
Cari Quoyeser
15:54
A lot of freelance stuff. Yeah.
Share
Emma Langford
15:55
An awful lot of freelance stuff and an awful lot of home recorded stuff and just things like that. I feel like there were other, like, big projects I took on during the pandemic, but that one really stood out to me as, like, it was scary to be asked to do it because it was like thirteen pieces of music that I would have to learn from sheet music and guide tracks. And I got, you know, there was a lot of relearning of old skills in there that I and re-learning of new skills that I had never touched before.
Share
16:28
So, I guess, I think the biggest, the biggest advice I could give to anyone who was wondering about how they can monetize stuff outside of what they usually do is, not be afraid to ask for help from people who know about this stuff way more than you do. Not be, not be tentative about investing in yourself and in your career. Because that it will pay for itself if you put yourself into it wholeheartedly. If you do it half-heartedly, you're going to wind up with a bunch of gear that you don't know how to use sitting in the corner and an empty bank account basically, you know. So, if you're doing it, do it. Like learn to use the stuff, ask for help. And there's so many what was great during the pandemic I've found was like so much stuff was made available to artists for free, which was amazing. So, like, I think it was pro tools or someone like made a package available to artists for free.
Share
Cari Quoyeser
17:24
No one told me this. I'm a logic girl though.
Share
Emma Langford
17:28
Yeah. And then Soundcloud as well offered their like premium tier available for something like half price or something where it's usually like seventy dollars, it was like thirty dollars per year, which meant you had unlimited storage. So, I got to put up all these like I was reading stories for people and recording them and putting them up on people.
Share
Cari Quoyeser
17:47
Really?
Share
Emma Langford
17:47
Yeah. So, like rolled up stuff and excerpts from some of my favorite books and samples from a couple of my
Friends
are really, really great authors. So, I recorded little excerpts from their books and put them up. And those readings then became part of their kind of press packs for different things as well. So, it's like flexing all those muscles and using the gear, not just for music but for that kind of stuff. And also it just kept me engaged with my audience and made them feel cared for, which during the pandemic we all needed a bit of that, so.Share
Cari Quoyeser
18:21
I think that you have a slight advantage with the quality of your accent when it comes to reading stories. I don't know if with mine it would be quite as lyrical and lovely.
Share
Emma Langford
18:32
I think anyone who doesn't like it's such a weird thing with accents. Like, I love your accent. I think it's gorgeous accent. Yeah, it's so beautiful.
Share
Cari Quoyeser
18:42
Now I just speak
American
.Share
Emma Langford
18:43
Everyone always thinks their own accent is the least good. But yours is class.
Share
Cari Quoyeser
18:48
Well, thank you,
Emma
. You actually said that you do Patreon
as well? Right.Share
Emma Langford
18:53
Yeah I do. Yeah, I,
Patreon
was a big part of why I started doing the storytelling. So, a few of my patrons had requests. One person has hadn't seen her daughter in a year and when she was when her daughter was a kid.Share
Cari Quoyeser
19:06
Oh, no
Share
Emma Langford
19:06
Yeah, she used to she used to read,
I Love You Forever, I Love You For Always
to her daughter. And so she asked if I would record that for them and I'd never because that book is not a big part of our childhood here in Ireland
. It's not like it's not no, it's not very well known. I'd heard of it from like TV shows but it wasn't overly familiar.Share
Cari Quoyeser
19:27
Like episode of
Friends
.Share
Emma Langford
19:28
Yeah. Yeah exactly. So I went and found it and like bought like a transcript of it and narrated it and did like a live recording of it and-
Share
Cari Quoyeser
19:40
It sounds fun.
Share
Emma Langford
19:41
It was fun. It was really nice and it was just something really different, which I think is just valuable for people to do, just go away outside your comfort zone. Because I, like, I don't really, I've always shied away from doing anything spoken on my work like on my music and recordings.
Share
Cari Quoyeser
19:60
And scary.
Share
Emma Langford
20:01
Yeah, it is like your speaking voice has such a, it's so personal, like-
Share
Cari Quoyeser
20:07
We're just used to our singing voice because I think it's the opposite for people. But if you grew up singing, then that's where I feel comfortable at least. I don't feel comfortable giving speeches. But if you, there's a guitar in front of me, I have a shield, you know. Yeah.
Share
Emma Langford
20:24
Yeah, so I, yeah, I started with
Patreon
where I started doing the little readings and stuff as a way of like minding those guys and then I started making some that were like publicly accessible. And I started doing livestream story times at nighttime with like puppets and stuff for kids and just exploring that side of who I am.Share
20:46
I suppose that kind of entertainer side of things in a, in a different way, which was, it was fun. And people could like leave tips, and then I did a lot of like virtual community events that were for charity and I had special here on one of them. Yeah, like we had like special guests and stuff. So yeah, it was, it was a nice, it was a really nice time. It felt like we were in a bunker altogether, and that was we all found our role, we all found the way we could give back to each other and I think it was quite a special time for that.
Share
21:21
So my, my working week became really weird, like my, my average working week became very, very weird where like turned into researching puppets online and like where I can find them and how much they were going to cost me and could I budget for this, is this like something that I could claim in my tax returns?
Share
21:36
And like putting outfits together for those, like, myself and my little sister would learn songs together to play as part of the virtual sing songs as well, so that became part of our week. And you know, on a-, I think it was Friday, so like on a Thursday afternoon I would do a sound check with everyone, and then Friday, we'd be ready to go, that day would be all setting up sound checking myself, making sure it's all working, and like all of this mad stuff that I never in a million years imagined I'd be doing with my week, and suddenly it was my life and that was it so.
Share
Cari Quoyeser
22:11
So this is like more from like personal interest because people, like, some people cross into their music careers and they're so organized and they have this like super-planned schedule, but for someone that I know that's just like an outright creative, what does that look like in a week? Like, is it all creative? Because that could be quite fatiguing, or do you schedule it out? Do you go by, what do I feel like producing today? Or is there like, how do you, do you know your year plan your economic plan, your-, to make sure that you're making what you need to make sure that you're producing enough content to keep your socials busy to engage on a consistent level. Like, how do you do that?
Share
Emma Langford
23:01
I'm not really someone who's good at scheduling or planning, an awful lot of it is very sporadic and random and spontaneous. I know I have, I have got funding to produce a certain amount of work and to do a certain amount of research in specific areas so that-
Share
Cari Quoyeser
23:16
Government funding or?
Share
Emma Langford
23:17
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I got a bursary it's called The Agility Award. So, it was like a pandemic supplement for artists, you see like they had like five thousand euro, that you could be awarded to basically just work like they don't expect you to produce anything out of it. They just want to see working creatively and they want to support that. So, I got one of those and I got a residency in the girl talked area in Cork. So for anyone listening is not Irish or from
Ireland
region is where people speak in the Irish language and there's a few of them around the country.Share
23:53
So I got a chance to go to one of those areas and do some work writing. And so I've had like designated times where, you know, I'm in this space now, these are my like, this is my weak when I am writing and producing and researching this specific thing and that's about as organized as I've ever been. Like, nothing else really is scheduled. And I spend, I go through quite kind of like depressive funks on a regular basis. So, like, because I'm a consistently creative as opposed to a scheduled creative person. I-
Share
Cari Quoyeser
24:24
That makes sense, though, doesn't it? If you're constantly being expected to put out creatively, it taps you out if you're not also getting filled at the same time. And I have a feeling, and correct me if I'm wrong. But this is how I am. When I say like, oh no, I'm not consistent necessarily in a week. I don't know people that work longer hours than artists because their-, your phone is always on, they're always able to get ahold of for different opportunities. Like, actually, the working doesn't stop. So, maybe it's not like these are the set tasks I have for today, but I think you're a very hard worker just looking at it from the outside.
Share
Emma Langford
25:04
I guess you probably feel this way and a lot of artists feel this way is that you-, most of the expectation on you. It just comes from yourself. It's just projection from yourself. And there is a feeling of disappoints, like self disappointment as well, when you're not obtaining or reaching those kind of heights that you expect of yourself. And it's totally unrealistic of us an awful lot of the time, but it's very hard to switch off because at the end of the day, we also get a high from those creative moments.
Share
25:31
We all like we're all kind of craving that serotonin rush of inspiration and that moment that sparked when, you know, you've got something, you know, you've got a song and it's there and you just need to sit down with your guitar and do it. And so it's almost, yeah, it's almost like that
ADHD
thing of like you don't want to do things that aren't giving you that rush. You have to do those things. They're all part of the process. But all you want is to hit that moment.Share
Cari Quoyeser
25:57
And like you said, like learning your equipment, it's you don't want to learn how to use all this equipment that you just got when you could be getting this rush from performing or rush from writing. I get that.
Share
Emma Langford
26:11
So by and large, I guess. Yeah, I am a hard worker and I recognize that, but it's when you have that expectation on yourself to be consistently the same level of hardworking all the time. It's very hard. Like it's hard technology in yourself that you have, actually, you've done work this week. You have, so yeah, we've got some work to do. I think with our own minds.
Share
Cari Quoyeser
26:34
At the risk of making you feel incredibly uncomfortable, I already feel like you're a legend, not yet globally recognized and me who's not even from here can sense the gravity of the culture you represent and how that transcends generations and how in that you're a fresh voicing of a very old spirit.
Share
26:56
And so it's a pleasure to know you and thank you so much for being on this podcast. I'm stoked to have you and everyone go listen to her music now.
Emma Langford
.Share
Emma Langford
27:05
Thanks
Cari
.Share
Cari Quoyeser
27:07
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Emma Langford
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