Wednesday, Apr 20, 2022 • 24min
DYVR: More "Active" than "Activist"
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The importance of branding and social media curation is often as important to the success of a musician as their art itself. Social platforms can tell music fans who you are, what your vibe is, maybe even…what you stand for. For our next artist interview, Cari from Musixmatch speaks with Dyvr, a non-binary, London based musician who breaks the social media mold by using their platform in a unique new way; to promote awareness around LGBTQ+ causes. Dyvr explains why they chose this direction for their socials, and how it’s shaped the way they run their business, interact with their fans, and the impact it’s had on the art they produce.
The Mix is a Musixmatch Pro podcast.
All music content for the Mix was composed and produced by Pierfrancesco Melucci.
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Dyvr
Cari Quoyeser
Transcript
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Dyvr
00:00
It wasn't actually until later down the line that I realized the importance of having those conversations and thinking to myself, wow, if I had had a person who I could look at as a mirror and say, "Oh, that's me." If I had had that earlier or had some way of access to that information earlier and that would have really, really helped me on my journey.
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Cari Quoyeser
00:23
Hello and welcome. you're listening to artists interviews on The Mix, a
Musixmatch
Pro Podcast hosted by me, Cari Quoyeser
the Artist Community Manager here at Musixmatch
and fellow musician.Share
00:38
This week I spoke with my good friend Dyvr from
London, England
about their incredible, multifaceted creative team, the inspiration behind their unique merchandise and what it means to build your brand around the cause. Please enjoy one of the warmest and most altruistic artists I know, Dyvr.Share
00:58
Hey Dyvr
Share
Dyvr
01:00
Hi
Cari
, how's it going?Share
Cari Quoyeser
01:04
It's going well. So I wanted to talk to you a bit today about how you use your platform differently than most artists use your platform for a cause. And what they mean by this is that at the core of every social plug at campaign, even the music that you put out itself, everything redirects focus back to the cause that you care about so much, which is equity and visibility for
LGBTQ
+ communities. I can remember the first time I met you was a little over two years ago, right?Share
Dyvr
01:37
Yeah, there about in a simpler time.
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Cari Quoyeser
01:39
I remember looking at your socials and feeling like it was incredibly refreshing because one thing I certainly hate about social media and I know that a lot of musicians hate is that it's so much, look at me, look at my face, look what I've done, constantly and you have to be consistent with it. So to develop a brand, you've completely found a way around that to actually do some good in the meantime as well.
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Dyvr
02:08
Yeah, and I totally understand what you mean as well because and I also feel like it's not it's not the artist's fault.
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Cari Quoyeser
02:17
Yeah, definitely not.
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Dyvr
02:18
That is the expectation, right? It's you know what else are we supposed to do on these things where we're supposed to be talking about the things that we're making and for me, I feel like there was a kind of stars aligning situation where I had been really, really struggling with how to meaningfully connect with what I was doing musically.
Share
02:44
And that was actually leading to quite a lot of creative stunting, and it was around the time that I was having a kind of like stunting in myself as well, realizing that I wasn't really being very vocal about who I was. I wasn't exploring who I was in a very meaningful way. I wasn't talking about the fact that I was queer. I wasn't talking about the fact that I felt extremely limited by the confines of my gender identity at that time.
Share
03:07
And it became this way for me to talk about these things that we're really at the front of my brain. And it wasn't actually until later down the line that I realized the importance of having those conversations and thinking to myself, well, if I had had a person who I could look at as a mirror and say, "Oh, that's me then."
Share
03:30
If I had had that earlier or had some way of access to that information earlier, and that would have really, really helped me on my journey. Not that I haven't gotten to where I wanted to be anyway, but I think it really would have, like, helped me get there at a time where is a bit more formative, you know?
Share
03:45
And so, like, I can remember the key moment where I realized that it wasn't about me anymore, it was about the community and it was because I got invited to an interview for attitude magazine and when we got called up steel, I was on the train with my partner and I kind of just had a moment, I had to cry and I was like, oh, hold on, this is way, way bigger than just my experience, like, because I'm being given a platform here to talk to my community and maybe that's what I should be doing.
Share
04:18
Maybe it's maybe it's bigger than me. And I ever since that's been part of my makeup, how I think about the project, really, it's just been so gratifying and so satisfying to watch it go from strength to strength, you know.
Share
Cari Quoyeser
04:41
How long? First of all, that's incredible. You answered like three questions I had there, and that's wonderful. You're so efficient.
Share
04:50
I was wondering how long this journey kind of took for you and how it took different shapes and have you explored different ways of expressing your cause and would you call it social activism, social awareness campaigns or is there a name that you have for it?
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Dyvr
05:08
Okay, so first things first is that whenever someone asked me about this, I always say I'm more active than ist, because that's kind of the truth. Slightly more active than ist. And the way that I feel about it is that basically in a climate where there's so many things happening and we've got this access to information. I genuinely feel like taking a step to kind of help engage in meaningful conversation in any way is an act of anarchy is an act of activism because frankly we're kind of given dopamine hits constantly. We're always consuming, always, always.
Share
05:46
And so anyone who's sort of stepping outside of that pure consumption mentality and going, maybe we should be talking a little bit about what's going on and hopefully engaging in good conversations that lead to minds changing and leads to legislations changing and communities growing like anything like that would be activism, right?
Share
06:12
And so I actually just had an interview recently where I said that music is a kind of like bespoke activism as well because it's like you're engaging people in a way that they can sit in contemplation and listen quietly on their own and sort of slowly take it all in and it allows them to have that conversation almost with themselves through the music.
Share
06:37
And for me, it's like the most beautiful form of activism really because it's like, it's so enjoyable and so sonic and so all encompassing, but you also get the option to have your mind changed about these.
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Cari Quoyeser
06:49
What I really enjoy about the way you create art, especially in this specific zone, is that you don't just do music. It isn't just the words you're saying. It isn't just what you're posting on Instagram stories, which is consistent and always targeting a good message and highlighting things that are happening globally, but you're using so many different types of art at once.
Share
07:14
And you've really developed an artistic community, not even just supporting a queer community, it's, it's an art community as well that you've become a part of or at least manifested with what you've been doing. I mean with your podcast with the videos, you've been creating, they're beautiful content, the photography as well, you have a makeup team that's phenomenal. Do you want to tell us a little bit about any of that?
Share
Dyvr
07:39
Yeah, I mean everything you just listed up there just fills me with pride because honestly, the people that worked on this project and yourself included who has been involved in the Dyvr project as well, like just the most inspiring group of people and it's a little family and it's growing all the time and it's growing because again, it's not just, not that, let us say it was just purely music project, that would still be incredible.
Share
08:11
But the fact that it does tend to sort of transcend form, it's about a lot of different things for me, it's always been about the bit that I get out of it is the writing, is the making of the stuff, and then kind of everything else is this outreach essentially this way to connect art forms and, you know, for me like art, it's just, it's just the way that you reach people and if we consider any sort of corporate forms of art that they're still designed to reach people, you know.
Share
08:49
Like forms of advertising and all of these very creative ways that people kind of like co-ops and steal our gaze like that, that's what it's for really, you know, it's to interact with people. And so, I'm just so lucky to be working with such an incredible people that are at the top of their game in their field and are able to breathe visual life into something which has sort of only occurred to me in a very abstract fall.
Share
09:20
And yeah, there are just so many people working on the project from a number of different areas and I've always said that music is about community and this is a solo project, but by no means does a solo project mean there is just one person response of everything, you know.
Share
Cari Quoyeser
09:41
It's a village
Share
Dyvr
09:43
Yeah, it takes a village and this is the thing, like I remember it was such a difficult thing to come to terms with because for the longest time, you know, I was really, really slowing down my own development by thinking that I was supposed to be doing it all myself. And because we all unfortunately sold this narrative of you know the kind of self-made musicians, I did everything myself, I'm responsible for absolutely everything because that is the kind of like when we see a biography of an artist that we love, that tends to be the story.
Share
10:15
And you know, realizing that actually all of these people would have had help, they would have had teams of people helping them to get this music out there and get it heard and connected to the right people. And why aren't you told that story more often? Right. And so every single time I have a release, I'm like, hey, here is every single person that works on this record.
Share
Cari Quoyeser
10:38
Well, I think because of projects like yours that is starting to become more of a saying, I've been hearing it a lot lately that like nobody makes it alone ever.
Share
10:50
What I wanted to hear a little bit more about is have you noticed any unexpected, I guess any unexpected effects from the work that you've been doing, have you been in touch with certain organizations, have they reached out to you, or have individuals reached out to you, have you seen I guess the impact, the tangible impact over the last few years, and in what ways?
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Dyvr
11:22
I would say the last two years has been kind of surreal really because this thing when you aren't being visible about who you are, the opposite of visible is invisible. And someone who works for a queer charity once said to me that the biggest threat to the queer community is invisibility because the problem is if you aren't in the common language, if you aren't expected as part of an ecosystem, unfortunately, that's where bigotry is spread. That's how it happens, because people can't form opinions about something which is abstract and it's not, it's not tangibly in front of them.
Share
11:59
And so as soon as I was being vocal about who I was, it wasn't just a case of, "Oh no, I'm being vocal and I wasn't before and you know, that's fine," it really was taking on a part of myself that had been invisible and making it visible and what happens when you do that is that people can see you.
Share
12:19
And although it sounds simple, it's actually a very complex idea because being seen is something that actually I think a lot of us shy away from. Being truly seen, because maybe we're not sure about who we are ourselves and we haven't quite figured that out for ourselves and we're worried that what we're showing to the world is too much or it's you don't want to be that vulnerable or whatever it is that's going on with you.
Share
12:45
And what's incredible. I've had a number of different people reach out, for a number of different reasons, over the last couple of years. I've had people who kind of work with an organization. So for example, I've done talks for corporations on the importance of education, a gender-nonconforming people.
Share
13:05
Yeah, I did a couple of recorded interviews for Reward Gateway, this big corporation who were kind of looking to create more inclusive workspace in the office since that they have in
London
kind of all over the world, actually. And so these kinds of discussions are really, really amazing.Share
13:22
But I'd have to say like the things that really, really excites me, and this is absolutely adorable. My favorite one was that I got a message from a young person in the
UK
who must be about 14, whose gender non-conforming and he said, "Yeah, so I really, really love everything you're doing and then setting up an awareness group in one school, we'll really, really love to talk to you."Share
13:50
And honestly just heartbreakingly beautiful that someone of this age, you know, had the wherewithal to be like, yeah, I want to step into the light myself a little bit and do something about that and I've had a couple of instances with that like with younger people who are kind of working on school projects and things like this and they're like, "Can I take some photos from your feed'cause I want to use them in my school project. Like that was absolutely amazing.
Share
Cari Quoyeser
14:21
Beautiful! I just, I hope we look back at this in 30 years and be like, "I can't believe that's only where we were," and it's great that things are starting to change, you know, and the art is, is the road to do that, like it always is. But it's also mind-boggling right that we're here in history and this is like the conversation that's finally coming forward.
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Dyvr
14:46
Yeah
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Cari Quoyeser
14:46
I also want to ask you because I think this is such a cool thing, Queering by Dyvr. So you, you are honestly like a renaissance person if there ever is, you have a podcast "Queer Story Time," right?
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Dyvr
15:05
Yeah, "Queer Story Time."
Share
Cari Quoyeser
15:06
And you have a film team and a makeup team and just like and now this business which is such, it's unique from a merch standpoint even if you put aside social awareness. So tell us about your Queerings,'cause I love them.
Share
Dyvr
15:24
I am actually wearing some right now for those that can't see I'm wearing a pair, it's called Blackjabs, they're black and white so marbles in fact. I absolutely love these things so much like, and like you say, it did start out as a kind of unique merch idea, I was really unsure about what to do. I felt very funny about T-shirts because you know, planet, it's just a bit like, I don't know about these T-shirts.
Share
15:53
And my partner, who's very, very clever, said to me, "You love wearing earrings, why don't you make earrings? That's very you." And I thought that's an absolutely cracking idea, I love this, right. And it took a little bit of time to get things going and then eventually, I don't know if you know, but we all suddenly had a lot of time at home, where we are sort of thinking about what to do with all that time.
Share
16:19
And so it seemed like a really, really good moment to try it out and they're made in the shape of a logo that represents queer open sexuality, kind of free thinking about these things essentially.
Share
16:32
And it's across outside of the box and it came from a conversation I had with a person in a queer club who had told me they'd been to a job interview that day and they wouldn't tell me the name of the company because apparently was quite a big company. But they had to fill out an application before they went into the interview room and you're filling out the application.
Share
16:55
There's a load of multiple choice questions and you had to put across to a box basically to say what your answer was. And there was a section about sexual orientation and this person was like, I just have no idea what I was supposed to do. I've got four checkboxes to say what my sexual orientation was.
Share
17:14
And it all just felt very, very strange. And we were sort of making a joke that they should have just put a cross through the entire page of the application, just there you go, this is incorrect. And after I left that conversation, I just really got thinking about this cross and how people really, really want to be able to put you in that little box.
Share
17:38
You know, they really want to be able to just put a cross through a box and go, this is what this present is. And it just doesn't really speak to the fluidity of gender and sexuality and all of these things and how it changes over time throughout your life.
Share
17:53
And you know, there I am thinking about this cross outside of the box. And then that sort of occurred to me as a way of symbolizing what your mindset might be about these things. And then the cool thing about it, me anyway, is that the cross itself is actually segmented into other boxes.
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Cari Quoyeser
18:09
Yeah.
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Dyvr
18:09
So the idea is that it's entirely up to you how you want to do this. Like if you want to put yourself in a box, go for it, that's absolutely fine as well. Do you want to be completely fluid about it? That's also great. As long as it's you, that's deciding, not the society but you, you know.
Share
Cari Quoyeser
18:28
It's exactly what you said earlier though, that like people need to categorize and if they don't have any exposure, which if you don't travel, if you don't leave your bubble, if you don't- and with social media it's getting harder and harder to keep your mind that closed.
Share
18:44
You know, it's, I mean, you can find, I mean that's, that's not to say that certain people don't go on rabbit holes on like
Facebook
and it changes their whole world and they only listen to people that affirm their ideas. You know, that's very true as well, you can do that with the internet. But it's also opening the doors for people to travel globally without traveling.Share
19:08
All this has happened while we were in lockdown, you know, the gears have been turning for years, but I think a lot of progress has happened because now everyone's on the internet, they always happen, but there's no avoiding it last year.
Share
Dyvr
19:25
We're really seeing a moment where the technology that already existed was kind of on the periphery for the majority of people, and is now widely accepted as a way to interact with the world around you.
Share
19:44
And that that comes with its own caveats obviously, like you said, there's this thing about Echo Chambers on social media, which can have pitfalls of course, but also more is more, right? That's the point, it's more of everything. And that also means more opportunity to change, more opportunity for you to consume information that's going to help you grow, will consume content that's going to make you grow, will help you grow.
Share
20:13
And so I feel like the opportunity is so rooted and there for us to kind of really get to grips with what the world looks like as an ecosystem, not country to country, but how we operate as a global ecosystem, you know? And that's really exciting.
Share
Cari Quoyeser
20:33
I agree, yeah
Share
20:43
I have one more question for you, but this has all been solid gold. Would you have any recommendations for an artist that has a cause that they really care about that already has the music platform and it's already what's pouring out of them, much like you in your identity?
Share
21:02
Would you have any advice for an artist that has something, whether it be a social issue, a political issue, something that they really care about, to organize their brand to support their cause?
Share
Dyvr
21:14
Yeah, that's a really good question. And there are probably so many things that I could say if I'm completely honest, the number one thing that I would say is if you're a person with something that you really, really care about that you live by yourself as an individual and you're holding that flame, your existence regarding this cause is already enough.
Share
21:39
So don't worry too much about how big your ecosystem becomes, how many things you're working towards. You being present in, what you care about is already enough. You're already carrying that flag that everyone in your community already.
Share
21:54
And that's kind of specifically at people in the queer community, but it's really for everything and if you are able to find courage, strength, all of the things associated with mental capacity time, all of these things that are difficult to find, if you're able to find these to kind of grow that ecosystem and reach a few more people take it really slow.
Share
22:20
Take it really, really slow, connects with people one by one interpersonally and it will grow by itself eventually, but as long as the intention is there and you know that it's something that you care about, you will do great and listen, small ecosystem, bigger ecosystem, they're all making a difference, right?
Share
22:42
And so I just feel like rather because the welcome feel so huge all the time with so much content flying around online and all of these things, it's hard to know if your voice is being heard, but as far as I'm concerned, if a handful of people heard it, it's worthwhile, right? And so just stay creative and find ways to reach people that are genuinely meaningful to you, and that really, really excites you.
Share
23:06
Like everything that I think I may have said to you not too long ago. I feel like my life is so busy right now, but everything in my calendar is something that I love. And I think that's all that matters really because sustainable, sustainable activism, if there is such a thing, sustainable activism.
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Cari Quoyeser
23:24
Yeah, like extra services that aren't tapping you out, but feeding you creatively.
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Dyvr
23:29
Yeah. The idea is that if you love what you're doing and it's integrated fully into your life, then it won't feel like work, it won't feel like something that you have to do now that you said that you will. And also take breaks because you need them, we all need them. I should probably be saying that to myself.
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Cari Quoyeser
23:53
That was beautiful. I think that you are my spiritual guru. So, know that I'll light a candle with your face on it.
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Dyvr
24:00
Oh my God, I'm trying. Thank you so much for having me.
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Cari Quoyeser
24:08
Thank you darling, bye.
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Dyvr
24:10
Bye.
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Cari Quoyeser
24:14
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