Wednesday, Jan 19, 2022 • 37min
Accidental K-pop star Eric Nam risks it all to go his own way
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Eric Nam is an accidental K-pop star. Growing up in Atlanta, and graduating from college in Boston, he did not expect that in his twenties he’s sign to a K-pop label, be named 2016 Man of the year by GQ Korea, and become a go-to television personality in South Korea. His music, imbued with his charisma and charm has charted globally. As fun as it is, the K-pop machine can be a real grind — it churns through young people not unlike the NFL draft. Nam is unusually candid about this experience, likely because he decided to quit the label system, and take his blossoming music career independent. On his second all English full length album There And Back Again Nam has full creative control, and all the burdens of sustaining a solo music career. Nam spoke with Switched On Pop co-host Charlie Harding about what it is like to go from K-pop star to indie musician.
SONGS DISCUSSED
Eric Nam - Ooh Ooh, Heavens Door, Good For You, Honestly, Can’t Help Myself (feat. LOCO), Lost On Me, I Don’t Know You Anymore, Wildfire, Love Die Young
Lee Hyori - 10 Minutes
MOMOLAND - BBoom BBoom
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Talking about
Speakers
(2)
Eric Nam
Charlie Harding
Transcript
Verified
Charlie Harding
00:12
Welcome to
Switched On Pop
, I'm songwriter, Charlie Harding.Share
00:16
Got an interesting conversation today with
Eric Nam
, the accidental K-pop
star, you know, growing up in Atlanta
and graduating from college in Boston
.Share
00:25
He did not expect that in his twenties, he'd signed to a
K-pop
label, be named 2016 Man of the Year by GQ Korea
and become a go-to television personality in South Korea
. But it makes sense because his music is viewed with charisma and charm, and it's chartered in Korea
and globally too.Share
00:50
What I learned from
Nam
is that as fun as it is, the K-pop
Machine can be a real grind. It churns through young people, not unlike the NFL
draft and Nam
is unusually candid about this experience, likely because he decided to quit the system and take his blossoming in music career independent.Share
01:20
On his second all English, full length album, there and back again.
Nam
has full creative control and all the burdens of sustaining solo-music career, I wanted to know what it was like to go from K-pop
star to Indi musician. So here's my conversation with Eric Nam
.Share
01:38
Hey
Eric
, welcome to Switched On Pop
.Share
Eric Nam
01:41
It is an honor, It's a pleasure to be here. I'm a fan and thanks for having me.
Share
Charlie Harding
01:45
You didn't intend to be a
K-pop
star. How did it happen?Share
Eric Nam
01:50
No, I didn't. Long story short, I graduated
Boston College
, I was going to work at Deloitte
doing strategy and operations consulting, but before I started that, I asked for a year off. So during my year off I was like, I'm gonna go do, you know, change the world and I went to India
.Share
02:05
But while I was in
India
I got hit up by this program called "Star Audition", which is like the equivalent of the voice meets American Idol
in Korea
. And they came across my YouTube
videos. "Hey, would you like to come out to Korea
? " And I said yes.Share
02:32
You know when I took a year off, like I promised myself that if the opportunity to pursue music came about, I would take it because doing music is such a risk, especially I mean for anybody, but as the son of immigrant parents, like it's not even a question, it's not even, you don't even dream that dream. So it was terrifying.
Share
02:52
I can barely speak Korean, I don't know what I'm saying, I don't know what I'm singing, but I told myself if I'm going to do something for myself, then this is the time. So I got on a flight, got into the top five of this TV show, and then I ended up signing a record deal, quitting my job and I tried to make it as a, as a musician in
Korea
and that was 10 years ago.Share
Charlie Harding
03:17
So you get a shot at it, you do all of this program. What happens next?
Share
Eric Nam
03:22
I meet with like 15 different labels, and then I end up choosing one called
B2M Entertainment
and at the time it was home to Hyo-ri
who was, you know an icon, the Britney Spears
, Arianna Grande and Madonna
of Korea
.Share
03:51
So I was like, hey cool, I get to like it's being her label. In my contract, I put, if I don't put out an album within six months of me signing, I get to walk. Because that was my biggest fear when you're walking into a contract that they sign you up, they lock you up, and you don't end up doing what you want to do.
Share
04:08
So get there, I start to take dance lessons, and then I start just following the label in terms of like you got to sing this song, learn this song, learn this phrase or whatever and that's kind of how I spent the following six months and then by January of 2013 I had my first EP called "Cloud Nine" though, if you ask me quite honestly, I did not really know what I was thinking about.
Share
Charlie Harding
04:35
One of the more successful songs off that record is "Heaven's Door" wasn't back to that for just a second.
Share
Eric Nam
04:41
Oh, no.
Share
Charlie Harding
04:42
I'm so sorry.
Share
Eric Nam
05:01
What a smash, what a banger, what a hit!
Share
Charlie Harding
05:06
What's your experience of hearing that again for the first time in a little bit?
Share
Eric Nam
05:10
I don't know if you can tell, but there's like this young naive optimism that is just in the voice in the bounce of the song and the cadence of everything, and it was like an era of a fresh start, a new beginning for young
Eric Nam
.Share
Charlie Harding
05:27
You said you didn't even know what you were talking about at that point.
Share
Eric Nam
05:30
Yeah, no, I mean like you know they would give me these songs and like practice these lyrics, practice these songs, practice your pronunciation because half the time nobody can understand fully what you're singing in Korean, but I didn't even understand like the lyrics.
Share
05:42
So I was always like the Korean equivalent of googling words and be like what am I actually saying? So I remember like every time I'm in the recording studio they were like "you're saying it wrong", it's like "I'm clearly reading it the way it's written" they're, like "yeah, but you don't understand the nuance", like "how can you expect me to understand? I'm American".
Share
06:00
So it's like, I don't know, I look back on those days with like a lot of, you know, it's very fond memories, but I remember at that time I was really stressed out because I had no idea what was happening.
Share
Charlie Harding
06:10
It sounds like your schedule was pretty grueling, what does the life of a
K-pop
star even look like?Share
Eric Nam
06:15
I was packed out from the moment I started until 2018. In
Korea
as a singer, songwriter K-pop
star, you're not just one thing, you are a multi hyphen it and what really kind of took off for me is not just the music, but the TV personality stuff. I became the go-to guy for any time a Western US
celebrity was coming to Korea
or was doing a press junket for a movie or a TV show. I was the person there to say hello, walked them through saying I love you in Korean.Share
06:47
Can teach you one word?
Share
06:49
Please.
Share
Eric Nam
06:49
Okay, it's I love you.
Share
06:51
Say it.
Share
Eric Nam
06:51
All right, 사랑해.
Share
06:52
사랑해.
Share
Eric Nam
06:53
Yeah, you're really good.
Share
06:55
You love me too?
Share
Eric Nam
06:56
I love you too.
Share
06:57
That was kind of how I outside of music became broadly known to the masses in
Korea.
Share
Charlie Harding
07:05
And you put out a lot of music at this point?
Share
Eric Nam
07:07
I had put out music, but it was never really a lot of music that I really, really wanted to do.
Share
Charlie Harding
07:13
But the music is performing well. Like your second album, interview goes to number 12 on the Korean charts. It seems like the music that you're making is connecting with an audience, but not with you.
Share
Eric Nam
07:23
The album actually did very, very well in
Korea
commercially, was a very big success. There's a song "Good For You" on it that it's probably my most famous song in Korea.
Share
07:44
And there's nothing wrong with the song and I like that song to this day, but I knew that I was writing it to placate a Korean audience. It wasn't exactly like I feel this in my bones, this is like, I think they'll like this.
Share
Charlie Harding
08:08
What are some of those strategies that you were taking to meet Korean audience where they're at?
Share
Eric Nam
08:13
The difficulty I always had with writing music and putting out music in
Korea
. Is that anything I wrote the label would always say "it's too buttery as in it's too American and Americans, but butter in everything", or it's too sophisticated, or it's too complex, or it's too pop.Share
08:29
And then in
Korea
there's this thing called, 뽕. And 뽕 is like, I don't even fully understand how to describe what 뽕 is, but 뽕 is like the heart and the essence of Korean music. The best equivalent I have is like the twang in country music.Share
Charlie Harding
08:52
What is the quintessential example of 뽕?
Share
Eric Nam
08:55
Oh, Man, I don't even listen to that much 뽕. So it's like hard for me to be like, oh this is it. But okay, this is like, I don't know, people might get on my case for this, but I listen to this song, and then it's a good song. If you look up this song called "BBoom BBoom", it's a BBoom BBoom, it's twice by Momoland.
Share
Charlie Harding
09:17
Momoland, got it. Okay, here it is.
Share
Eric Nam
09:30
Like there's something about this song that screams 뽕, here's the thing 뽕 isn't a bad thing, it's highly addictive and that's what people really like, but it's addictive in a way that I don't know how to make, so it's more of a shortcoming on my part and not, it is not a critic criticism or anything on the songs or any.
Share
Charlie Harding
09:53
Okay and you put out "Good For You", and you're saying that's kind of your attempt at, you're trying to do these sounds?
Share
Eric Nam
09:59
"Good For You" is like my attempt at like trying to follow what was working in
Korea
at the moment for like an RNB
. Kind of more jazz based kind of thing.Share
Charlie Harding
10:21
Dang! I mean that's a hot song like it feels to me like another universe is cultural interpretation of like what sounds like
Boys II Men
to me, and that is the highest compliment harmonies, you know the vocals just all so rich. It's really thick.Share
Eric Nam
10:40
Thank you. I mean, you know what's interesting, though? I think about that like I don't think we would ever hear a song like this in the
US
right now in this time and age like.Share
Charlie Harding
10:47
No, no, go back to 1992, maybe.
Share
Eric Nam
10:49
And I think there's something about like it's at its core that moves like Korean people myself included, but I don't again have a full understanding of it.
Share
Charlie Harding
11:07
So It's 2016, you've released your second album, the music is performing well, why don't you just double down on the music and see if you can pull it closer to your vision? Like, why not focus your energy there?
Share
Eric Nam
11:23
Because the TV appearances, the endorsements, all that stuff was making so much money. In
Korea
, the labels own you 360, so it would be a much bigger and much more stable bet to just say, "hey, we're going to put this kid on TV and make them shoot 30-40 endorsements in the span of a year, that's gonna be so much more money than putting out one or two records, and then we have to promote it".Share
11:47
So very quickly that shift happened, and I felt very bamboozled where I understand I needed to do it for press and to make money, but I wasn't doing what I came to
Korea
to do and that was music.Share
Charlie Harding
11:60
But you're locked into a record deal, what's your response? What are you going to do about this?
Share
Eric Nam
12:05
I got to a point where I was just so burned out, I was exhausted, I was burned out, I felt a lot of anxiety, like my health has taken a nosedive and so there was like a big breaking point and that was probably 20, 17, 18, and I said from now on music is the way that I want to do it.
Share
12:28
I'm going to write my own things, I get to take creative control, and I've made you all this money on like the brands and the TV side, so give me music.
Share
Charlie Harding
12:38
Okay, so you get some creative control back, but the music is already doing well, like what opportunities are you seeing where you want to take this thing?
Share
Eric Nam
12:46
There's so much opportunity outside of
Korea
for K-pop
to do well. And also I felt like I sat in a very interesting space because I am multilingual and then that's when I started to do a lot of sessions in L. A
. You know, doing the typical songwriter dating sessions, just speed dating through producers and songwriters to try to find the right fit.Share
Charlie Harding
13:09
What is it like for you to have to start out on your own as you call it, dating other co-writers.
Share
Eric Nam
13:14
It's highly stressful. I was very new to songwriting, so I was so insecure, self-conscious. It's that period where any melody you put out, you're like, "oh my God, this is gonna be so sucky, and everybody's going to judge me for making the most basic melody and the lamest lyrics", but you just have to overcome it.
Share
13:40
And I'm like, getting red as I say this because it's like a visceral reaction of me being like, "oh my God, I hope they like this melody" and you just like whisper something out, and they're like, "what can you do it louder? " I'm like, "oh no, never mind it was really bad".
Share
13:54
And we had periods where we're like, maybe we go
RNB,
and we do super, super urban RNB
songs, and I was like, "it doesn't feel right". But I think what's for me has always been the guiding light is like, I am a very, very, at my core, a pop lover. I'm a pop O-file, uh if that's a word, I don't know.Share
Charlie Harding
14:15
You coined it, it's its good, I like it.
Share
Eric Nam
14:17
But here's the thing, like, oddly, I quickly realized in
Korea
, there was nobody that was playing to the pop sound and that was always like, my thing. I was like, "Koreans love pop". Like, you go look at the charts, it's all like Charlie Puth
, Sam Smith
, Maroon 5
, Justin Bieber
like Adele
, but there's no Korean person doing it. And so I was like, oh, let me just keep doing this. Maybe I could become, like, the Korean guy, the Asian guy that does it.Share
Charlie Harding
14:42
Is there a song that you, in this period of dating, and you're trying to figure this stuff out? You're trying to do the pop thing.
LA
Songwriter world, Is there a song that you eventually arrive on, where you're like, "oh, I'm finding something".Share
Eric Nam
14:54
If you look at, the "Before We Begin" album, I feel like that album as a whole is like a great pop album, but "Love Die Young". I felt like was a pop ballad, that it was one of those moments where I felt like a lot of things kind of clicked.
Share
Charlie Harding
15:26
So you've got this new album in 2019, it's your big pop album, all in English, and you're touring with it, you make it to your last show in L. A. In March 2020, and the
L. A.
Show is not just any show, it's supposed to be a big spotlight, but it's March 2020.Share
Eric Nam
15:43
Yeah, that show it was supposed to be. We had all these labels, all these label heads, all these A. And R. All these agents, everybody coming to be like, "let's check it out, do we pick them up? Do we sign him? Do we put out an offer? "
Share
15:58
And then you know, we get the hey everything shut down, no shows, no gatherings. So I think I was sad but like at the same time, I was more like concerned about
covid.
Share
Charlie Harding
16:12
The world shuts down. You're deciding should I go independent or not? And even though all of music is a giant question mark, you decide to make a ridiculous sleep to go independent.
Share
Eric Nam
16:27
Yeah, mayday. I don't know, sometimes.
Share
Charlie Harding
16:31
What where you thinking?
Share
Eric Nam
16:31
Sometimes I wonder the same thing. What was I thinking? What am I thinking? I don't know, I think it's just kinda it just became like the natural thing, you know, I to be honest, like, I don't think there were many labels at the time, even music in general. I feel like everybody's figuring out how to make it work, particularly in the early days of the pandemic.
Share
16:50
And I knew I didn't want to sign to another Korean label because that would just inhibit everything that I do outside of
Korea
. And so I was like, I guess like one of the only options is just to go independent.Share
Break
Charlie Harding
17:55
The goal all along is to make the music that you want to make, you're now unburdened by the label system, but you're also self-financing to keep this whole thing going. What moves do you make next to pursue that dream?
Share
Eric Nam
18:10
Essentially, what ended happening is like February through August, I was just writing. I was doing the songwriting thing again, just like, "let's try to put something cohesive together". And it was the longest time we ever put spent on an album.
Share
18:22
When I was doing albums before, I would fly into
L. A
. I have five days due to a day's come out with six, eight songs pick from there, and that's the EP, and that was how it gets put out. Like I'm telling you, it's like it's a very intense process. So I think if anything what did help is that I had the luxury of time, of okay let's just go slowly and build this gradually.Share
18:45
But the hardest thing is how do we put out really good work and really quality assets and music and videos with a very limited budget and team. There were things that we just had to give up on, there are things that I just had to say like I can't focus on it like in
Korea
there are teams dedicated to corresponding with fans.Share
19:05
They're literally called fan managers and their entire job is to engage fan communities around the world and to interact with them and keep them updated on like this is coming, come to this event, like there's so much goes into it, I don't have the bandwidth.
Share
19:21
So I've just on those things, I've just taken a pass and that's where I feel bad sometimes for my fans because I see the stuff online where they're like "why don't we get this? Why don't we have that? Why don't we get this" because that's what they're accustomed to with other groups, but I just can't.
Share
Charlie Harding
19:38
It looks like you choose to double down on the music itself. Like this is the thing that you've been looking to do from the get go. You quit your job a decade ago to pursue music, and you end up going through all the TV charade, and you're finally, I decided I'm gonna put up my own work again. You call it "There And Back Again" is the record, I think the title stands for itself. You put out your first single, "I Don't Know You Anymore".
Share
Eric Nam
20:07
"I Don't Know You Anymore" was a song that I put together after I was really angry. I had like a massive argument with somebody like a very big blowout, and you know, it was in this period where like we're doing two or three sessions a week and for me, I think they always start pretty working if we step in like, "hey, what are you thinking about? What are you feeling? How are you doing? "
Share
20:44
And that day I was like, "I'm just mad, I'm just really upset", and I was explaining the situation, I was like, "I just really wish sometimes, like I just did not know this person anymore".
Share
21:03
Somebody was telling me the other day in an interview, I was like, "hey, you have so many amazing dance-crisis songs". "I was like, what do you mean? " Like they're sad, and they're like breakup, so they're like, you know, heart-wrenching but at the same time I want to dance, and it's really confusing, and my senses don't know what to do, and I was like, "great because that's exactly what I have wanted to do for a very long time".
Share
21:23
And so, "I Think, I Don't Know You Anymore", is actually a great culmination of those efforts of trying to get it, because I don't want to be like, I don't want to be, like, a sappy, like, wet blanket, just crying. Like, I feel like you can have those emotions and tell those stories, but also, kind of, poke fun at the situation and be very, like, honest about it, and, like, like, just like, we're having this conversation just real.
Share
Charlie Harding
21:48
Yeah, there's a duality to these songs, I think in the same way that there's a duality to your story. Like, you tell your story, you're an immensely charismatic person, you're very upbeat, you're fun to talk with, but also it's coming against this backdrop of it sounds like you've had a lot of fun in your career, it's been super awesome, but it has been utterly exhausting.
Share
22:10
And I think a lot of people can relate to the "I am working my tail off, even if I'm enjoying what I'm doing", and the music has that vibe of it's pop, and it's fun, but it's the music that I want to commiserate with, because I'm kind of frustrated with the situation that I'm in.
Share
Eric Nam
22:26
There is a duality, and I think for a long time, I was wondering like, is it okay to have this duality to the songs and to you know who I am on and off-screen, but at the same time, that's how we are as people.
Share
Charlie Harding
22:37
What is the vibe that you think you're catching on this record?
Share
Eric Nam
22:39
I hope that it sounds, and it feels elevated from my other work. That's how it certainly feels to me in terms of, like, the musicality of it, the lyrics behind it, but also the instrumentation of we really try to stay away from as many, like, electronic sounds as possible, which I think really ran pop for a considerable number of years and coming from
K-pop
, it's still such a big, big point in it.Share
23:02
But also, if I think about the emotional story and the journey that I've been taking over the past few years, and in this album. It's like this constant high-low, high-low, high-low thing. And so for me that there is like a really great high where we feel good, like the world is ours, and then I immediately have like a deep low which is I'm back again at this, like, the world is falling apart, nothing is going to work out, and it's this very chaotic sense of life.
Share
23:32
But for some reason, in this album, it felt cohesive, and it felt like I could pointed it and say like I've kind of synthesized the chaos into something that feels good and generally uplifting with, like, a moment of like, "oh, I absolutely feel I absolutely feel this lyric or I feel this emotion" and so sorry, very long-winded answer, but that's that's kind of what I'm thinking.
Share
Charlie Harding
23:58
It's kind of like the chorus of the album's opening song, "Lost On Me".
Share
Eric Nam
24:03
Oh everything about, you know, it's bittersweet.
Share
Charlie Harding
24:05
Last song in the symphony.
Share
Eric Nam
24:06
Oh, "everything about, you know, it's bittersweet, last song in the symphony".
Share
Charlie Harding
24:21
I feel like you're also flexing your nineties pop music knowledge here.
Share
Eric Nam
24:27
Why? Oh, I didn't even put that together.
Share
Charlie Harding
24:37
Is this just happening for you now?
Share
Eric Nam
24:39
Yes, I'm like literally you are blowing my mind for my song.
Share
Charlie Harding
24:52
I love it. I mean, "everything now is bittersweet, last song in the symphony". You're you're giving me
The Verve
Bittersweet Symphony
, which is of course a reference to Rolling Stone
song, which they sampled long story there, but you've almost like taken this wonderful pairing of Bittersweet Symphony
and like told the fuller story of it and made it something else.Share
Eric Nam
25:13
Hey, you know what? You just actually blew my mind. Maybe it's just so in my D. N. A. That I don't even realize the incredible piece, I'm an idiot. Yeah, totally intentional, but it's I don't know, I don't think I'm like that, I wish I was that profound.
Share
25:34
But here's the thing in my defense and maybe this is a cop out, but everybody, like any time we put an album, you know, we're always asked what does this album mean to you? What is it like, tell us more about the theme or whatever, whatever. And I feel like those are just very general and like, you know, natural questions to ask about a brand-new project.
Share
25:52
But at a certain point I found myself saying like "it is whatever the listener wants it to be"and the reason I truly feel that it's because when I write these songs and I write these lyrics and I make create these moments, everybody has their own personal version of that story in their life.
Share
26:13
Everybody has that relationship that is bittersweet. Everybody has that relationship where I wish I didn't know you anymore. And to them, that's what makes that song real, and I think that to me as a creator, as a writer, as an artist is more powerful in helping people process their life than me one way pushing this is me. And that's kind of that's kind of how I've made sense of a lot of my songs, particularly this last most recent, one recent album, I'd say.
Share
Charlie Harding
26:46
Are you getting any indicators of whether or not this is working for you? You've made this bold effort to go on your own.
Share
Eric Nam
26:53
I like to think that when I make a decision I made the best decision for me at that point in time and that was my optimal choice and so whatever path that takes me down that is the life that I have to live, and then I just have to keep making it better.
Share
27:06
I'll say when it comes to being independent, yes, there are moments where I'm like, man, I wish I had a label that just like took care of all this paperwork signed, the documents, would wire the money and like figure out logistics for X, Y, Z, A, B, C.
Share
Charlie Harding
27:20
You were supposed to be a
Deloitte
consultant, you bailed on it and now a decade later, you're trying to figure out whether, like you're trying to figure out logistics and finances, you accidentally became a consultant.Share
Eric Nam
27:31
You should see my Excel spreadsheets to make a decision on how many albums to print and make and ship and all that, like there's so many correlating cells and formulas, and I'm like, is this what life is? Is this what an independent musician does?
Share
Charlie Harding
27:45
You can't escape a spreadsheet, have you quit
K-pop
?Share
Eric Nam
27:49
Have I quit
K-pop
? Uh, no, I don't think so, people know me for different things. In music, some people will know me for K-pop
because that's where I started my career, That's where my career has derived from.Share
28:04
Other people will step into
Eric
down and say, oh, it's just a pop record. Hopefully, maybe because I'm talking to you, and they can't even if I don't tell them that they will have no idea.Share
28:14
But I think if I look at the word
K-pop
, you know, it's just popular music in Korea
and that's what it is, and.Share
Charlie Harding
28:24
Slash globally at this point.
Share
Eric Nam
28:25
It's what it is. And so I, this kind of goes to the music as well. It's like if fans say, hey, you're a
K-pop
artist, like fine, if other people say you're a pop artist, fine doesn't really bother me. It was a very recent realization, maybe a year or two ago, where I was like, you know what? Like, rather than trying to be boxed off into A or B, I'm gonna make C. And that is Being third culture.Share
28:50
And I think for a long time myself, and I'm sure many other people included, we felt like it was a handicap on in terms of what we're able to do and pursue and achieve, and I think there are naturally systemic biases that make it harder for us.
Share
29:07
But at the same time it is a perspective in a story that only we can tell that nobody else has the rights or the knowledge or the insights to and so being able to do it on our terms is kind of how I am trying to reframe my career and the things that I do and, use it for good as altruistic as that may sound.
Share
Charlie Harding
29:28
Use it for good. By it, you mean your public platform, what do you think your responsibilities are as a public figure?
Share
Eric Nam
29:36
If there's one thing that I definitely intentionally set at the onset of my career, it was like if and when I make it, if I make it, if I get a following or a platform like I will use it for good. That was like a very public and also a very personal thing that I told myself and everybody around me because I feel like there are so many marginalized people and I think there are so many issues in the world that we should advocate for.
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30:01
Now in
Korea
, the hard thing is that like we are expected to not say anything on politics on anything really because it's a business risk honestly because people can get upset one way or another, and so we're always trained not to say anything, but for me there was this point where I was like, well if you don't say anything when you're relevant and when people care about what you say, me tweeting into the Twitter verse of nobody following me, like it doesn't actually matter.Share
30:33
So I should be using my platform and my voice to guide it towards what I think is right when I have the attention on me.
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Charlie Harding
30:42
Is there a specific moment where you were able to use this platform for something that mattered?
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Eric Nam
30:48
I mean I think the hardest, one of the hardest, but one of the proudest that I'm really glad I did was you know when there was the horrific hate crime, it was a horrific hate crime in
Atlanta
last year in March and a gunman had murdered a bunch of people and the majority were Asian, Asian American women.Share
31:10
And I was asked by Time magazine to write a piece like an editorial. And for me, I had never written anything like that, and I was in
Atlanta
at the moment when it happened. So it shook me to my core. I do not want to cry easily, but I remember crying literally, and figuratively it hit so close to home.Share
31:28
And so the thing that was really terrifying is like as an Asian, Asian American, we have such few historically, we've had such few opportunities to make headlines on a national or international level. And so when we are given the opportunity, we have this burden to make sure that it over and outperforms anything so that we have a second shot to make anything else.
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31:55
And I think that's why like for movies or music, it's like when you're supporting an Asian or Asian American actor or musician, it actually speaks. So it has bigger reverberations around the world than you may realize. And so for me to say, "oh, let me raise my hand, I'll be the one to write the one piece that's going out in time about the hate crime was terrifying".
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32:18
But they gave me like 36 hours or like a really short period of time to put that together, and it was pretty much synthesizing the experience of growing up as a child of immigrants in
Atlanta
and the subtle racism and like the many things that we are subject to that we have like for one way or another have normalized and, tying that in with this horrible attack, this hate crime.Share
32:47
And so it literally, it was the hardest thing for me to ever do, but it was in many ways I'm really glad I did because once I put it up, the response was just, it was out of this world. The thank you as well, thank you for verbalizing and putting into writing what I've had such a hard time explaining to people who are not like us.
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Charlie Harding
33:12
You said as a piece we have been excluded in turned vilified, emasculated, fetishized and murdered. And then you spoke about Asian Americans feeling like perpetual foreigners.
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Eric Nam
33:26
I think it can be as casual as like where are you from? Where are you really from? That was probably the hardest, but at the same time, I'm really glad I did. And you know, hopefully there aren't those similar things in the future that I do have to do something about.
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Charlie Harding
33:40
There's almost a way though, that like your training or your, your, is that your experience that you received by going through the
K-pop
system strangely, even though your, that system does not want people speaking out like it kind of uniquely situates you in a place to be able to communicate, go on television, to articulate hard emotional truths about life as one has to do in song.Share
Eric Nam
34:06
Yeah, and I think you hit the nail on the head and I think that's what I, I mean when it comes to, for me embracing being like third culture, because that experience to me is not one that anybody else is going to have.
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34:19
And I think it's also uniquely Korean American in the concept of
K-pop
, because there are not many other people who will ever have that opportunity to do and train and learn like I have and so it is, I don't have any regrets. I there were definitely difficulties getting to where I am today and there will be many more to come.Share
34:37
But everything that I've done, everything that I've built and everything that I've fought for has in one way or another helped and informed and built me to where I am today and I think for that I'm incredibly grateful.
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Charlie Harding
34:52
It's been an absolute pleasure to get to hear your story. I'm so excited to get to share it with everybody.
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Eric Nam
34:57
Thank you for listening, and thank you for the thoughtful questions. I feel like that, it's a, it's a gift to be able to ask those questions and communicate in a way and this is probably the most fun interview that I've had in the conversation I've had in a very, very long time.
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Charlie Harding
35:20
Switched On Pop
is produced by Nate Sloan and Charlie Harding were edited by Jolie Meyers, engineering background, Brandon McFarland Community Management by Abby Barr, illustrations by Iris Gottlieb our executive producers are Charlie Harding and Hanna Rosin remember of theVox Media Podcast Network and a production of Vulture.Share
35:34
You find our episodes on our website, switchedonpop. com and of course, anywhere your podcast, we're on social media at
Switched On Pop
. I'd love to hear about other musicians, you know, that have taken that wild move of leaving the label system and going totally independent. Let me know your favorites on Twitter and Instagram. We'll be back next week, is going to be talking with Elvis Costello
and until then, thanks for listening.Share
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Charlie Harding
Eric Nam