Wednesday, Oct 6, 2021 • 26min
John Lennon - God
Play Episode
Earlier this year, I got an amazing email—the estate of John Lennon said that they have a treasure trove of audio material from his life, and they were wondering if I would be interested in making an episode around the song “God,” from John Lennon’s first solo album. I’ve never tried making a posthumous episode before, because hearing directly from the artist is at the heart of Song Exploder. But with all the interview archives that they have of him speaking, plus all the isolated tracks from the recordings, and the original demo, it actually seemed possible. So this is a very different and special episode of the show.
In September 1969, John Lennon told the rest of the Beatles that he was leaving the group. Their breakup was announced publicly in April 1970, and that December, John Lennon released his first solo album, John Lennon/Plastic Ono Band. The Plastic Ono band was the name for a rotating group of musicians that John and his wife, the artist Yoko Ono, had put together. For the making of “God,” the band included Ringo Starr on drums, Billy Preston on piano, and Klaus Voormann on bass. I got to interview Klaus Voormann about his experiences making this track, and in this episode, you’ll hear from him along with the archival interviews with John Lennon, Ringo Starr, and Billy Preston. You’ll also hear the original demo for “God,” and outtakes from the recording sessions at Abbey Road studios. They recorded the final version of this song on October 9, 1970—John Lennon’s 30th birthday.
Archival audio sources:
- John Lennon's audio was excerpted from an interview with Rolling Stone's Jann S. Wenner, recorded on December 8, 1970. The full interview can be found here http://www.johnlennon.com/music/interviews/rolling-stone-interview-1970/ With grateful thanks to Jann S. Wenner for his permission and collaboration.
- Arthur Janov and Billy Preston's quotes came from interviews conducted in 2005 owned by Yoko Ono Lennon. With grateful thanks to Yoko Ono Lennon for her permission and collaboration.
- Ringo Starr's audio came from the 2008 Classic Albums documentary https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98GXTQLWr0c&ab_channel=ClassicAlbums on John Lennon / Plastic Ono Band, directed by Matthew Longfellow. With grateful thanks to Ringo Starr for his permission and collaboration.
For more, visit songexploder.net/john-lennon http://songexploder.net/john-lennon
Read more
Talking about
Speakers
(7)
John Lennon
Hrishikesh Hirway
Klaus Voormann
Show more
Transcript
Verified
Hrishikesh Hirway
00:00
You're listening to
Song Exploder
where musicians take apart their songs and piece by piece tell the story of how they were made. My name is Hrishikesh Hirway
.Share
Break
Hrishikesh Hirway
01:58
Earlier this year, I got the most amazing email. The estate of
John Lennon
said they have a treasure cove of audio material from his life and they were wondering if I would be interested in making an episode around the song God from John Lennon's
first solo album.Share
02:14
I've never tried making a posthumous episode before because hearing directly from the artist is at the heart of
Song Exploder
, but with all the interview archives that they have of him speaking plus all the isolated tracks from the recordings and the original demo, it actually seemed possible. So this is a very different and special episode of the show.Share
02:38
In September 1969,
John Lennon
pulled the rest of the Beatles that he was leaving the group. Their breakup was announced publicly in april 1970 and that december, John Lennon
released his first solo album, John Lennon Plastic Ono Band
.Share
02:53
The Plastic Ono Band was the name for a rotating group of musicians that John and his wife, the artist
Yoko Ono
had put together. For the making of God the band included Ringo Starr
on drums, Billy Preston
on piano and Klaus Voormann
on bass. I got to interview class foreman about his experiences making this track and in this episode you'll hear from him along with archival interviews with John Lennon
, Ringo Starr
and Billy Preston
. You'll also hear the original demo for God and outtakes from the recording sessions at Abbey Road Studios
. They recorded the final version of this song on October 9, 1970, John Lennon's
30th birthday.Share
John Lennon
03:36
I don't believe in kings, I don't believe in Elvis. I don't believe in Zimmerman. I don't believe in Beatles.
Share
Hrishikesh Hirway
03:60
But the story of God and what it was about and what it was inspired by really begins with the breakup of the Beatles.
Share
John Lennon
04:08
We were four guys that... I met Paul said you want to join the band, you know? And then George joined and then Ringo joined. We were just a band who made it very, very big at all and we made it very, very big. But we sold out.
Share
04:23
My own taste is different from that, which I played sometimes, which is called cop out to make money or whatever or because I didn't know any better. And didn't really enjoy writing third person songs about people who lived in concrete hat flats and things I like first person music, but because of my hang ups and many other things I would only now and then specifically right about me.
Share
04:47
The only true songs I ever wrote What I "Help" and "Strawberry fields". Yeah, they were the ones that I really wrote from experience and not projecting myself into a situation and writing a nice story about it, which I always found phony and now I wrote all about me and that's why I like it. It's me and nobody else.
Share
Hrishikesh Hirway
05:07
In 1970,
John Lennon
and Yoko Ono
started working with psychologist Arthur Janov
who created Primal therapy
. Primal therapy
is based on the idea that we all carry around unprocessed trauma and internalized pain from very very early on in childhood and instead of processing that trauma, we find other ways to coexist with it.Share
John Lennon
05:28
In a nutshell, primal therapy allowed us to feel feelings continually and those feelings usually make you cry because before I wasn't feeling things, that's all I can feel my own fear, I can feel my own pain, therefore I can handle it better than I could before.
Share
Hrishikesh Hirway
05:46
Here's an excerpt from an interview with psychologist
Arthur Janov
.Share
Arthur Janov
05:50
We had a talk with
John Lennon
before he made that album, he said, well what about God? And I went into a long discourse about, you know, people have a lot of pain and they tend to believe in the less pain they have the less they believe. And he said it was something like, what do you mean that God is a concept by which we measure our pain and I said yes, yes. And so he wrote it.Share
Hrishikesh Hirway
06:14
This home recording was made in the summer of 1970, right around the time when John and Yoko were attending
Arthur John
offers primal therapy sessions.Share
John Lennon
06:32
I had the idea God is a concept by which we measure our pain so, when you have a word like that, you just sit down and sing the first tune that comes into your head and the tune is the simple... God is the concept. And then like a lot of the words, they just came out of my mouth, God is the concept, which we measure our pain...
Share
07:04
And then I just rolled into, I don't believe in magic and it was just going on in my head and I don't know when I realized I was putting down all these things that I didn't believe in. You know, I ching and bible in the first three or four just came out whatever came out, you know,
Share
07:20
I don't believe in magic. I don't believe in I Ching, I don't believe in my book. I don't believe in tarot I don't believe in
Hitler
...Share
07:36
I could have gone on, it was like a christmas card list, you know, well where do I end Churchill and whoever missed out. We got like that, you know, and I thought I had to stop with them and then was going to leave a gap and so just fill in your own, you know, for whoever you don't believe in, it was just got out of hand, you know, so but beetles was the final thing because it's like I no longer believe in myth, you know, and Beatles is another myth. You know, I don't believe in, I just believe in me that's we are reality
Share
Hrishikesh Hirway
08:15
In September 1970,
John Lennon
started assembling musicians to record his new songs that included Klaus Voormann
, he was the bassist in Manfred Mann
and he was a longtime friend of the Beatles. He made the cover art for their album Revolver
.Share
Klaus Voormann
08:29
Well he asked me to be in the plastic Ono band and I was knocked out and then it came to, now I'm going to do the plastic Ono band LP and you if we want to do play on the sessions and when I heard Ringo was there, I was so happy. I mean I always wanted to play with Ringo and I never really had the chance up to, then
Share
Hrishikesh Hirway
08:49
Here's
Ringo Starr
,Share
Ringo Starr
08:51
We were just sort of jam and then we'll find out how they would sort of go when we did them. It was very loose actually and it being a trio also, It was a lot of fun
Share
John Lennon
09:03
In spite of all the things that Beatles really could play music together when they weren't uptight and if I get a thing going, Ringo knows where to go, you know, like that we played together so long that it fits,
Share
Hrishikesh Hirway
09:15
So the three of them started recording at
Abbey Road
studios in London.Share
Klaus Voormann
09:19
Well on this session he always came in with his songs. I think the first version he did was playing on the guitar. I mean we were in the sitting in the studio and he was playing it.
Share
John Lennon
09:33
God is a concept by which we measure our pain. Yes we do.
Share
Klaus Voormann
09:45
We never heard the songs before. Ringo hasn't heard it. I hadn't heard it. We're completely fresh.
Share
John Lennon
09:57
I don't believe in the [unintelligible]. I haven't got the word you say. Mm hmm. Okay so how about that?
Share
10:13
God is a concept by which we measure our pain. I'll say it again. God is a concept. What he was that close? D? We'll take one and then let me listen. So I haven't I haven't got a concept in my head about this other than it's meant to be gospel and it doesn't sound anything like it, you know. Well no I don't like it like this at all. In fact, I don't feel in the mood for any of this.
Share
Ringo Starr
10:54
Have a night off.
Share
John Lennon
10:56
Yeah we could do. It's just that ashamed of coming all the way and sprouted out for two hours and then go, you know. Yes, yes, maybe I should play it on piano. You know?
Share
Klaus Voormann
11:09
And then he went to the piano and he made it very simple and he really liked it.
Share
John Lennon
11:18
I can play the piano even worse than I play guitar. So that's a limited palette, as they call it, you know, I have to think in terms of going from C to a, you know, like that and I'm not quite sure where I am half the time. So it's it's that kind of feel about it. Mhm.
Share
11:37
That's reality. Oh, sorry, I fucked the ended. I liked all that beginning.
Share
11:46
Yeah, I always like simple rock and nothing else. You know, I was influenced by acid and got psychedelic, you know, like the whole generation. But really, I like rock and roll, you know? And I expressed myself best in rock because it's primitive enough and it has no bullshit.
Share
12:15
When you just hear the piano, does it all for you? Your mind can do the rest of it. If you've got an ear, you can hear any musician will tell you just play a note on a piano, score them harmonics in it. So, we got to that. You know what the hell? I didn't need anything else.
Share
12:47
God is a concept. Hey, that sounded great to me very fast. Oh, you're the plane was tremendous. Is it too fast? Let me just get me Well, that's it. Okay, okay, okay, stop it down a little. Mhm.
Share
Klaus Voormann
13:09
And then he went back to the guitar and asked me Klaus, you play the piano and I can't really play a rock and roll piano really well, I mean, I learned classical piano, but I played a few little licks that sort of were a little gospel li like and I think that's the moment where they clicked with them. Why don't we ask
Billy Preston
to come in and play well?Share
Billy Preston
13:32
John Lennon
to me was the boss Beatle. He was really a character. He was witty and just a lot of fun. You just did whatever he wanted to, really felt like you're doing. Yeah, John was the boss Beatle.Share
Hrishikesh Hirway
13:46
Billy Preston
was a grammy winning musician. He played organ, piano and other keyboards as a session player in the sixties with legends like Little Richard
, sam Cooke Ray Charles and the Rolling Stones. He recorded with the Beatles on their last two albums. This last May, 15 years after his passing, he was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and this is him playing piano.Share
Billy Preston
14:07
I met the Beatles In 1962 when I was on tour with
Little Richard
, I was playing organ for Little Richard
and they were opening act on the show and we played one show in Liverpool and then we went to Hamburg Germany
for two weeks and that's where we really became good friends. We hung out there and I used to get them free cokes and steaks at the club because I was with Richard so I can get things, you know, and they would always hang around me and ask me things about America and different things. So we became good partners.Share
Klaus Voormann
14:44
All right.
Billy
is fantastic. I loved the man so much and Ringo said that he never heard Billy played a wrong note in his whole life when he played I feel that he's really holding back and he's not playing the gospel piano as crazy as he can. He really knew I have to do something that really supports this song and as much as there is space for it, I do something. But he could have done much more which wouldn't have fitted the song so well. Mhm And Wrinkle loves that. To play as simple as you possibly can. And it's the same with me. Yeah, yeah. It was perfectly clear what we were going to play. And at the moment when John starts singing a song and you hear his voice and you hear what he's saying. You automatically know what you have to playShare
Billy Preston
15:43
The simplicity of what Klaus and I played with him, gave him a great opportunity to actually for the first time really use his voice how we and his emotion, how he could, you know.
Share
John Lennon
15:57
Yeah, I don't believe in tarot. I don't believe in
Hitler
. I don't believe in Jesus. I don't believe in Kennedy. I don't believe in Buddha.Share
Klaus Voormann
16:31
Ringo always said in interviews that he never plays the same full again. Okay. And he says, if you ask me to play that same fill again, you can't do it. He can only do what he feels at the time. We just clicked together and it was just so much fun. And you know, Ringo actually said the way we play, that's the best band he ever played.
Share
John Lennon
17:01
I don't believe in Beatles. Just believe in me.
Share
Klaus Voormann
17:14
We went in the control room and listen to one take. And he said, just believe in me. And then he came up to me and said. Klaus, do you think I should say Yoko and me? And then I told you, I, look, that's a question I cannot answer for you. You know, that's something you have to know by yourself.
Share
17:35
Not lots of people know Yoko, but she is very delicate and very fine feeling. And her presence was really good. I was fantastic for John. And it was good for us to, you know, lots of people were opposed to it. And they felt like John egan nuts or something being with Yoko and all this. You know, It was terrible. It was a terrible situation. I mean, the very, very first time when Yoko came in and Ringo hadn't seen much of Yoko he was very upset.
Share
Ringo Starr
18:09
We all had our wives and our families and we'd go to work and come back suddenly. Yoko was living in the studio with us. It freaked us out freaked me out anyway
Share
Klaus Voormann
18:21
Because he had his drawn from the Beatles. And now she suddenly had John and Yoko and he had a hard time to get used to this. But John was really good. He went up to Ringo and said, look, Ringo, you know me but now it's Yoko and me. We both are together. And that's how it is. And that made him feel much better. And then the next days everything was fine.
Share
Ringo Starr
18:49
And I asked him, I said, you know, what is going on? He says, well, you know, we're going to spend every minute together. So as soon as you knew that you were cool and that's what they did.
Share
Billy Preston
18:59
You could tell it was a lovely companionship. They were always holding and, you know, kissing and dancing around. They were always together.
Share
John Lennon
19:07
There's nothing more important than our relationship. Nothing both of us could survive apart for what for? No, I'm not gonna sacrifice love real love for any friend or any business because in the end, you're alone at night. I'm neither of us want to be. And nothing works better than to have somebody you love hold, you just believe in me.
Share
19:34
Uh huh. Yoko and me. That's reality.
Share
Klaus Voormann
19:44
And that's reality, John never liked his voice. And when he was with the Beatles, he always put a lot of effects on his voice to cover up that because he thought the voice didn't sound good. That's what he thought.
Share
John Lennon
19:59
He used to get a bit embarrassing in front of Jordan because we know each other so well, he's trying to be Elvis always doing this now. You know, we're a bit super critical of each other. So we inhibited each other a lot. But this time it was my album and now I had Yoko out there, Okay, so I can perform better and I relaxed, you know?
Share
20:17
And so dear friends, we'll just have to carry on. Yeah, the dream is over.
Share
20:35
Mm The dream is over. You know, I'm not just talking about The Beatles is all I'm talking about, the generation thing, you know, the dreams over, like it's over, you know, and we've got, well I have anyway, personally got to get down to so called reality
Share
Klaus Voormann
20:52
John actually, he was really trying to say something with us. I don't believe he meant that sort of belief with people, for example, in despair. And the last thing they ask for is uh God help me, I believe in you. And that's what he doesn't believe in. He says, the help you only get out of yourself. You can't ask for anybody to give it to you and that's what you have to do. And if you don't believe in yourself, you're fucked.
Share
Billy Preston
21:24
Mhm Yeah, John was very, very spiritual guy. And he, he had a big heart and he was very sincere in what he did and what he stood for and he was always brave. He would put it out the and the consequences sometimes were very harsh, but he would always put it out there, that's why you could not not love him.
Share
John Lennon
21:51
You're born in pain and pain is what we're in most of the time and I think that the bigger the pain, the more gods we need creating is a result of pain too. I have to put it somewhere and I write songs you know because that's the thing I chose to do you know, I can't help writing them. That's the fact.
Share
Hrishikesh Hirway
22:26
And now here's God by
John Lennon
in its entiretyShare
John Lennon
22:30
Yeah mhm mm Yeah mm God is a concept by which we measure our pain yeah I'll say it again mhm mm hmm God is a concept by which we measure. our pain Yeah yeah I don't believe in magic, I don't believe in I ching yeah yeah I don't believe in the bible, I don't believe in tarot. Don't believe in
Hitler
, I don't believe in Jesus, I don't believe in Kennedy, I don't believe in Buddha, I don't believe in mantra, I don't believe in Gita I don't believe in yoga I don't believe in kings, I don't believe in Elvis I don't believe in Zimmerman, I don't believe in Beatles just believe in me mm Yoko and me Yeah that's reality. Mhm The dream is over. What can I say? The dream is over uh yesterday mhm I was the dreamer but not I'm reborn, I was the walrus but uh huh I'm John and so dear friends You'll just have to carry on The dream is a yeah mhm mmShare
Hrishikesh Hirway
26:33
Visit songexploder. net for more. You can find links to buy or stream. God, there's a new eight disc box set called
John Lennon
Plastic ono band The Ultimate collection. And a lot of the material in this episode, like the outtakes and the original home recording can also be found on there on the song exploder site. There's also a list of all the archival interview sources that were used to make this episode, My deepest thanks to Yoko Ono
and Sean Ono Lennon and to Simon Hilton and Sam Gannon from John Lennon's
estate and to Tim Plumlee from universal for the invitation to make this episode and for all their help in completing it.Share
Break
Hrishikesh Hirway
28:14
This episode was produced by me and Christian Coons. My interview with class vermin was engineered in
Germany
by Michael Bartlinski. Editing help came from Craig Ely and Casey Deal. Music clearance by Kathleen Smith. And the episode artwork was made by Carlos. Lerma.Share
Break
Add podcast
🇮🇹 Made with love & passion in Italy. 🌎 Enjoyed everywhere
Build n. 1.36.0
Hrishikesh Hirway
Mark Pagán
John Lennon
Arthur Janov
Klaus Voormann
Ringo Starr
Billy Preston