Tuesday, Mar 15, 2022 • 22min
Ruthie's Table 4: Alfonso Cuarón
Play Episode
Alfonso Cuarón is a man who combines beauty in film, with a passion for telling stories. On Episode 26 of River Cafe Table 4, the Academy Award–winning director, writer and producer talks with Ruthie about their mutual love for his native Mexico, and the feelings they share - their children are the centre of their lives, food is the focus of their days, and Italy is a second home for both of them.
Read more
Talking about
Speakers
(2)
Alfonso Cuarón
Ruth Rogers
Transcript
Verified
Break
01:00
Welcome to River Cafe Table 4 a production of
iHeartRadio
and Atomized Studios.Share
Ruth Rogers
01:08
Today. My guest is
Alfonso Cuarón
, the Academy Award-winning
director, writer and producer. Amongst his many masterpieces are Gravity,
Roma
and Harry Potter
. He is a man who combines beauty and film with a passion for telling stories. Alfonso
is from Mexico
and ever since the architect Ricardo Legarreta
brought us there in 1991, our family has returned every year to this stunning country and the people who live there.Share
01:40
Alfonso
and I share the feeling that our children at the center of our lives, that food is a focus of our days, and Italy
is a second home for us both. I admired Alfonso
through his movies, long before I knew him, and more and more ever since. Today, as we sit in the garden of the River Cafe and talk together, you will understand why.Share
Alfonso Cuarón
02:15
Gracias
Ruthie
.Share
Ruth Rogers
02:16
Alfonso
when I cook a meal in the River Cafe when we are serving a meal. What you think about is the action of the dish, but what really we're thinking about is the preparation before. So we start very early in the morning to prepare, to think about process.Share
02:35
And I found very moving the interview that you did about making a film, and you talked about that. You talked about the lighting, you talked about the black and white photography, you talked about the cinematography, you talked about process. So process and film process in food. What do you feel about, what is your thing about the relationship?
Share
Alfonso Cuarón
02:60
I think it's exactly the same process, but I think it's the same with any creative endeavor, being this a technical endeavor or an artistic endeavor. I think that everything comes from the concept.
Share
03:17
You know, first there's a concept and that concept, interestingly, I think comes out of memories and those memories in the specific case of food. I mean, that's what food is so amazing because it combines the two biggest centers of memory that is taste and smell.
Share
03:38
In film you go through different things.
Share
Ruth Rogers
03:41
Like what tell me about film and pro.
Share
Alfonso Cuarón
03:44
In the specific case of
Roma
for instance, the process, I try to focus the processing images but also in terms of smells and sounds and in terms of, ones that you start getting the concept also, then you have to, you have to start landing that process.Share
Ruth Rogers
04:09
Landing it?
Share
Alfonso Cuarón
04:10
Landing it, is like how am I going to make this happen? That I guess that in the kitchen, when you're cooking is pretty similar, you have an idea of recipe, you have idea for a film, you write the screenplay, you write the recipe, so everybody can have the same, share the information because that's something that is so specifically is so similar between say cooking and cinema at that a lot of different processes are involved and a lot of different people are involved in the process.
Share
04:47
Another element that we have in common is the presentation because one thing is just mixing the ingredients and having the amazing dish, but how you're going to present it?
Share
Ruth Rogers
04:59
And that's the last thing, that's, that's what I do and that's what the head chef does. We stand there and I will not send a plate out to your table. I'm the last person, so the responsibility is mine, I'm the last person to see a plate before it goes. And I guess you're the last person to see your film before it's in the cinema.
Share
Alfonso Cuarón
05:17
And then not only that, but also you have to because in a film also is the presentation goes together, your film with which image you're going to use to convey the film meaning the posters, the trailers, yeah, all of that stuff.
Share
Ruth Rogers
05:39
Alfonso
, tell me about the food of your childhood. Tell me about growing up in Mexico
.Share
Alfonso Cuarón
05:45
I belong to a middle class family in
Mexico City
. You know Mexico
, and you know how different is a middle class in Mexico
that the European middle class on the US.
Share
Ruth Rogers
05:59
I will tell, tell me.
Share
Alfonso Cuarón
06:00
A middle class family in
Mexico
growing up in the'60s and the'70s, there was still a mentality of making things last. I remember the refrigerator in the kitchen was probably a refrigerator of the'50s, you know that rattle a lot by the way.Share
06:23
The kitchen was an old kitchen, I mean there was one TV set for the whole home, you know, and an old one. And with the food it was so what I'm saying that is that the economy of this is that in one hand, yes, it's not, it was less opulent than what it would be like a European or American families, middle class families.
Share
06:50
But at the same time because of the horrible social structure of
Mexico
and the disparity, any middle class family has domestic workers, and many of those families of these middle class families, they have social domestic workers that live in the premises, in the in what it was called, the servant's quarter, yeah. And when you say servants quarter you're you're thinking okay well yes a huge house. Not necessarily everything was when cramped up.Share
07:28
And I have to say that the duty of the kitchen, it fell in the hands of these domestic workers. In my house there was one person that was born in charge of the kitchen, one another person was in charge of all the other chores around the house. When I, my first memory was a very old woman called Benita, I guess that she was from Mixteco origin, south.
Share
Ruth Rogers
08:06
Where is that?
Share
Alfonso Cuarón
08:08
That's south in
Mexico
. I mean Mixteco, they extend between what is Oaxaca,
Veracruz
. And Benita she was really old, the memory I have of her was just a face filled with wrinkles. And Benita was the cook, and she would just pretty much was very independent about unless there was, were special occasions in which as you, we were talking before it was more about my grandmother giving instructions.Share
Ruth Rogers
08:42
She wouldn't bring the food of her region because
Mexico
is so regional that she cooked the food where she'd come from Oaxaca
. Would she cook that food? Or did she cook?Share
Alfonso Cuarón
08:50
She would, she cook, she would cook good for
Oaxaca
, but being a middle class family in Mexico
, there was a lot of Mexican food, yes, but there was this kind of Spanish tradition I would think and a combination of this kind of Spanish and European, French tradition completely adapted I guess, you know, it was very syncretic.Share
09:19
And when I was a kid also it was starting to be greater influence from the
US
the whole thing of burgers and hot dogs.Share
Ruth Rogers
09:29
I'm picturing the, your household, your family home. And so you would come home from school or your father would come home from work or your mother would come home, and then you would also, do you have a large family? Did you have brothers and sisters?
Share
Alfonso Cuarón
09:41
Yeah, I have three siblings when sister, two brothers. And the household was pretty much the way they described in the film
Roma
. The interesting thing is that it was a combination between whichever food Benita cooked by her because she knew how to cook, she was great.Share
10:03
But also my grandmother would come with her big book of recipes, that it was one of those ancient books. You know. Well it was not a book, it was a notebook, it was all written, handwritten probably from her family, her mom or whatever, it was a very old kind of uh notebook, and she would go through the pages and find like the recipe that was going to be for that day, so that means that so those recipes will come from way before.
Share
Ruth Rogers
10:33
Because yesterday I did a conversation with
Salman Rushdie,
and so there is someone who grew up in Bombay
with a book like that in his kitchen from his great-grandmother. He said that almost every kitchen, you know, had the great-grandmother or the grandmother's recipes written in hand, you know.Share
10:50
Yeah, well that would have been maybe my great-grandmother and her book and who knows for how far back it would come in, and it was yes, I remember it was I never I, and I was a kid, and it was not that interested but what I was amazing was the handwriting because the handwriting look antique. And there was still like in between pages like dry flowers and stuff.
Share
11:16
Where is that book?
Share
Alfonso Cuarón
11:17
I have no idea better.
Share
Ruth Rogers
11:18
Better find it, yeah.
Share
Alfonso Cuarón
11:21
I have no idea.
Share
Break
Ruth Rogers
12:27
The recipe that I'm going to read for
Alfonso
, that he chose is, orecchiette with tomato and ricotta. 300 grams orecchiette. 300 grams of cherry tomatoes, very ripe, cut in half and squeezed. One garlic clove chopped. 50 grams of grated Parmesan. One bunch of fresh basil. A tablespoon of extra virgin olive oil. And 200 grams of ricotta.Share
12:59
Combine the tomatoes and garlic, season, add the olive oil and toss to combine, let marinate for 15 minutes or so. Put the ricotta in a bowl and seasoned with salt and black pepper. Cook the orecchiette in boiling salted water until "al dente" and then drain. Gently, heat the tomato mixture and add the drained orecchiette, stirring gently to combine. Finally, stir in the ricotta and the basil leaves and serve with Parmesan.
Share
13:33
So
Alfonso
, why did you choose this recipe?Share
Alfonso Cuarón
13:36
Sounds so simple, no? It's so in many ways so basic, and I think that that makes it so universal. It is one of those in which it allows every single flavor to go to come through. You know it's with the tomatoes, particularly those tomatoes that you use, you feel the soil.
Share
14:05
It's interesting because food is amazing because you can like simplicity the same way that you can enjoy a dish that takes like 15 hours to make, you know, and it's a complete different journey is a complete different trip. The beauty of dishes like this is how honest, and immediately, they feel, but by this because of the same reason nothing can go wrong.
Share
Ruth Rogers
14:34
I think that growing up in the
United States
, the image of Mexican food that we had of the Mexican food is being so heavy and so many different dishes on a plate you know that you would have to go to a Mexican restaurant, and then it would just be very heavy.Share
14:53
And then the experience that I had, it was really radical to go to
Mexico
and see this incredibly refined, you know even if it was just rice and beans there was just or if it was a fish with a bit of chili and cilantro or if it was tortilla with just herbs and some cheese, it was so delicate, you know is robust. But the difference between the interpretation of Mexican food internationally and the reality of eating it in Mexico
for me as a cook was, well, very interesting.Share
Alfonso Cuarón
15:25
Yeah, it's totally because you know of course you have heavy dishes, I mean, and you have a lot of that that is like fast food, maybe the equivalent of fast food, a lot of them that you find in in in stands like thousands of stands that you know in the street stands that is they use a lot of corn and dough, corn dough, tortilla, masa de tortilla in different shapes and a lot of that is fried and if you think about it, the difference between what would be a sope, chalupa, taco and say huarache, if you ask what are the ingredients, pretty much are exactly the same.
Share
16:09
The difference is how that corn dough is prepared, a little bit like pasta. Now that one yes, it can be heavy if it's, if you limit Mexican food to that, but that's you know, is that is just, it's like saying Italian food is pizza.
Share
Ruth Rogers
16:28
Whenever I go to a city almost is the first thing I do is try and go to a market because in a way the market tells you where you are, tells you about the people there, tells you about the food that's there, the attitude towards the food and so
Mexico
for me was full of great markets, were you, did you go to the markets?Share
Alfonso Cuarón
16:49
Well? Well that you are hitting something that's very important there because yeah, I think that unfortunately all of that is changing as well in
Mexico
because of the arrival of the big supermarkets and the convenience of the big supermarkets, but what I grew up it was I love as a kid going to the market.Share
17:10
It was an adventure, I mean it was just going through the stalls, and you have all these kinds of fruits and vegetables, but also you will go to the mid-section of the fish section, and they were like chopping all the stuff there, yeah, and it was a mixture of of of the sounds the smells, but those are things, the sounds.
Share
17:30
You know, you've been in a market in
Mexico,
like most markets of course it's just the cacophony of sounds between the people announcing their products and the chopping of the butcher to some music in the distance. That's another thing growing up, it was the smells of the bakery and also the most beautiful smell, the smell of the tortilleria.Share
Ruth Rogers
18:03
Tell me about that.
Share
Alfonso Cuarón
18:04
Oh, that's to do as you know to do the tortillas. You go through a process called nixtamal, that is how you grind the the the corn. And it's a machine, it's a big machine, the crimes the corn into this dough and then the machine actually goes and creates a tortilla.
Share
Ruth Rogers
18:30
So you don't have that rolling out process.
Share
Alfonso Cuarón
18:32
No, you don't have that rolling over, and now it's mechanical in most of the cases. There's a whole mechanical sound that comes with it is very metallic alloy and very machine with a lot of squeaking and the thing is the combination of the sound and the smell that is fantastic. Now, I love that, but nothing beats a handmade tortilla.
Share
18:56
There was, you know,
Laura Esquivel
? And she wrote like water for chocolate.Share
Ruth Rogers
19:01
Oh yes, of course, of course.
Share
Alfonso Cuarón
19:03
Laura
used to say that the big difference is that when you are doing the tortilla by hand, you're actually infusing the tortilla with energy, she was saying that.Share
Break
Ruth Rogers
20:53
When you left home, and you were on your own, did you, first, did you cook? Did you start cooking for yourself, or did you?
Share
Alfonso Cuarón
21:01
I tried to cook for myself, and I was, yeah, I was sort of successful, but I, you know, I was young, and I was completely busy trying to make a living that my priority was elsewhere and wrongly so because I think that that would help a lot discover, discover the kitchen and cooking earlier.
Share
21:26
And that didn't happen until later and not because of me, it's because my son came to live with me, and it was this whole thing of, "okay, I'm not going to be just going and doing", I was living in
New York
at the time. He says, "I'm not going to be just doing takeaways, you know, for my son, I have is his home, I need to cook for him".Share
21:50
So yeah, I would then I started spending a long time going through recipe books, and I'm trying to figure out this combination of yes, food, that this, it was more kind of international food if you might, but always having Mexican dishes or Mexican ingredients, and I was in
New York
and you could get at that time some ingredients now, you can get everything in New York
for Mexican food, but then it was a bit more difficult, so you have to sort out the places.Share
22:21
And then is when I start cooking the problem is, and is something I haven't solved yet.
Share
Ruth Rogers
22:28
What is it?
Share
Alfonso Cuarón
22:29
That I love cooking, but I'm messy, yeah, that's a problem. And the other thing is, I don't know how to manage the time. Time and mess is the thing and because there was a period which I said, you know, "I just want to stay here home, and you know like my kid just moved to
New York
, I want to be here". So it was pretty much dedicated to that, and my life would go into doing menus and where I'm going to cook tomorrow.Share
23:00
When you, when you talk about, we've talked about food in your, in your parent's home and your grandmother's cooking and in
New York
you're cooking and bring ingredients. How do restaurants appeal to you? Do you like eating in a restaurant? Did your parents ever take you to a restaurant in Mexico City
?Share
23:20
Yes, that was for me growing up, that was a big treat, going to a restaurant.
Share
Ruth Rogers
23:24
It was a treat.
Share
Alfonso Cuarón
23:25
Yeah, it was a treat because it was expensive, so you will eat at home. I mean, the typical thing is, "oh, I would like to go to a restaurant" and my grandmother and my mom saying "ah, we can cook it at home, and it's cheaper".
Share
23:40
You would get mostly Mexican food, where it would be international food or Argentinian steaks or empanadas and stuff like that. Once that I start being more independent, pretty much I lived in restaurants.
Share
Ruth Rogers
23:59
Did you?
Share
Alfonso Cuarón
23:59
Yes, because also restaurants are not only a place where there's food, it's, it's a communion. And in
Mexico
, you know how it goes, I mean, the thing in Mexico
is that comidas or lunchtime is dangerous.Share
Ruth Rogers
24:15
Why?
Share
Alfonso Cuarón
24:16
Because you know that you're going to agree with some friends to meet at 3:00 pm for lunch, and you sit there, and maybe they order a tequila to open up, and then food comes, and people eat, and the launch extends until 6:00 pm, 7:00 pm and suddenly there you stay in there, and you're asking for some sort of dinner.
Share
Ruth Rogers
24:47
So food is, if it is a connection, and it is something very important to our life. So I suppose my last question to you from a very wonderful conversation here as people are starting to eat in the garden, is if you have a comfort food, if there's food that you go to when not because you're hungry not because you're celebrating, but because you need comfort. What would that food be?
Share
Alfonso Cuarón
25:15
I think definitely will be quesadillas.
Share
Ruth Rogers
25:17
Quesadillas.
Share
Alfonso Cuarón
25:19
Yeah, that would be, that would be it.
Share
Ruth Rogers
25:21
Well, I look forward to having a quesadilla with you in
Mexico
Share
Alfonso Cuarón
25:23
And I would love that.
Share
Ruth Rogers
25:31
To visit the online shop of the River Cafe. Go to shop the rivercafe. co. uk.
Share
25:49
River Cafe Table four is a production of iHeartRadio and Atomized Studios for more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the
iHeartRadio
app, Apple
podcast or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.Share
Break
Add podcast
🇮🇹 Made with love & passion in Italy. 🌎 Enjoyed everywhere
Build n. 1.38.1
Ruth Rogers
Alfonso Cuarón