Friday, Jul 10, 2020 • 43min
I Think I Might Like Social Distancing A Little Too Much
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Rafer and Kristen advise one listener who’s breaking up with her best friend, and another who's enjoying social distancing a little TOO much. And for their What Should I Watch Next segment, they're joined by Dan Pashman, host of The Sporkful! Need some Movie Therapy of your own? Submit your questions to raferandkristen@gmail.com or by filling out the contact form at raferandkristen.com. You can also tweet us @raferguzman and @kristenmeinzer. And if you haven't already, join the Facebook Community, where there are always fun movie and TV conversations happening: facebook.com/groups/raferandkristen And quick favor! Our little indie show is something we pay for out of our own pockets. We've been fortunate to have a couple advertisers (yes!), but in order to get more, we need to learn a little more about you. So, please go to podsurvey.com/therapy and take a quick, anonymous survey that will help us get to know you better. Once you’ve completed the quick survey, you can enter for a chance to win a $100 Amazon gift card (Terms and Conditions apply). THANK YOU SO MUCH! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Rafer Guzman
Kristen Meinzer
Dan Pashman
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Transcript
Verified
00:01
You're listening to an Airwave media podcast.
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Break
Kristen Meinzer
01:08
Welcome to our couch.
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Rafer Guzman
01:11
Take a seat.
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Kristen Meinzer
01:12
It's time for therapy.
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Rafer Guzman
01:16
Movie therapy.
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01:28
I'm Rafer Guzman, film critic for News Day.
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Kristen Meinzer
01:33
And I'm Kristen Meinzer, culture critic and co author of How To Be Fine. In each episode of Movie Therapy, we offer up questionable advice and solid TV and movie recommendations for whatever ails you.
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Rafer Guzman
01:46
Please note we are not real therapists, and we are not doctors, we're not astrologists, we're not psychics, but we are movie critics.
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Kristen Meinzer
01:53
Yes, we are movie critics, and we do our best to help you. We really do. Uh, so Rafer, shall we get to this week's letters? We have kind of a serious one as our first letter here today.
Share
Rafer Guzman
02:04
Yes, I'll read this one. It's from Hannah, Hannah says, Dear Rafer and Kristen. I am in desperate need to mourn the end of my nearly 11 year long friendship with my quote soul sister, this woman, my best friend has grown and changed dramatically in the last year, which I am so proud of and thankful for.
Share
02:23
But with this change has come hurtful disruptions in our friendship. The last year has been heart-wrenching as our friendship has transitioned from daily calls and texts to emotionally important messages left unread or unanswered for weeks at a time.
Share
02:38
After numerous conversations expressing my hurt, I called to say our friendship needed a break. We haven't spoken since, going on three months. I truly feel that this loss of my friend my rock, my soul sister is the worst heartbreak and breakup I have experienced Rafer and Kristen, can you please recommend a movie about soulmates, friends, romantic humans and their pets or otherwise who fall apart and come back together.
Share
03:04
I'm hopeful that with time and growth we can rekindle our friendship, but for now I need to celebrate and mourn what our friendship was, heal from the broken trust, then open my heart back to my soul sister when the time is right.
Share
03:16
Movies that will make me emotional are encouraged. I find a lot of release from a full body cry, thank you both for the work you do.
Share
Kristen Meinzer
03:23
Oh Hannah, I feel for you, I have had to end a couple of friendships one that I was friends with one gal, I've known her since I was 10, I considered her my best friend from age 12 to 25 yeah, it was very painful breaking up with her, but you know She did things like sleep with one of my boyfriends and borrowed money and didn't pay it back.
Share
03:47
She did lots and lots of other things and then there was another friend I had to part ways with because I realized after more than 10 years of friendship, I realized she only liked me when things were bad and not when things were good, and that's not a good dynamic for a friendship, it is not at all. We need are friends to cheer for us when we're happy, not just be excited when we're sad. You know.
Share
04:09
Anyhow, Hannah, I don't know all the ins and outs of what happened with your soul sister, my point is just I understand it hurts to break up with a friend, there are lots of reasons that we have to go on breaks with friends and sometimes those brakes are brief, sometimes they last forever, and I know it hurts a lot. My longest relationships have been with friends, and I've only been with my husband for six years So that just tells you how long like friendships can be the longest relationships we ever have in our lives.
Share
04:35
And it is painful, and I don't know if our culture does spend enough time talking about how much it hurts to have a friendship, And what about you Rafer? Have you had major friendships come to an end?
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Rafer Guzman
04:45
Uh sure. You know, I'll just add quickly because I think you said it well. But you know, listen, I have written people off, I have been written off.
Share
Kristen Meinzer
04:53
Yeah, me too.
Share
Rafer Guzman
04:54
So I've seen both sides as
Joni Mitchell
might say.Share
Kristen Meinzer
04:59
I love that song.
Share
Rafer Guzman
04:60
I do too. So, Kristen, what do you say? Do you have a prescription for Hannah?
Share
Kristen Meinzer
05:04
Yes. And I apologize in advance to everyone listening because I think I might be going for the easy answer here. It's probably the most obvious and easy answer.
Share
05:14
It also is a Schlock fest. It is a 1988 classic movie called
Beaches
by Garry Marshall
. Yes, you are the Wind beneath my Wings. You know the song? You've probably seen clips of the movie if you have not seen the movie. It is the story of C. C. bloom. A wild redheaded entertainer played by Bette Midler
who befriends the refined classy Hillary Whitney, played by Barbara Hershey
.Share
05:40
The two come from completely different worlds but hit it off instantly when they're kids and then over the next 30 plus years, they are everything from roommates, two best friends to enemies. And along the way, we see how distance, jealousy, and different paths can tear friendships apart. But we also see how friendships in time can restart in new and different ways. Here's a clip.
Share
Hillary Whitney
06:06
Dear CC, I've decided to study law, and I'm convinced I'll have some effect on the world rather than end up in a mindless woman's club. Like my aunt vesta, I ended up choosing Stanford because four generations of Whitney's went there. All men, of course. But mainly I have to confess because it's co-ed.
Share
C. C. Bloom
06:26
Dear Woz Queen, Leona gave me a great present for my 21st birthday. She moved to
Miami,
but I'm pumped. I'm on my own now, and I've got a flat, academies and a subscription to variety. I'm all set, PS How's college life? Aren't you done yet?Share
Hillary Whitney
06:40
Dear sister. I went on my first protest march, and my father called me a radical. He doesn't understand the whole world's falling apart while he's playing golf? Sorry, my trip east didn't work out, but dad just wasn't feeling well enough. Will I ever see you again call or write soon, Will you love, Hillary.
Share
C. C. Bloom
07:02
I was just about to commit suicide by taking an overdose of vitamin A when your letter arrived telling me I'm a genius and don't lose heart. I decided to live even though I never get any work, I've got no agent, and I'm deeply lonely during this festive season
Share
Rafer Guzman
07:15
Kristin, I'm just going to say it. I've never seen
Beaches
.Share
Kristen Meinzer
07:18
What? Rafer!
Share
Rafer Guzman
07:20
Never. It's a movie. It's one of those movies that I think I know almost everything there is to know about it. And yet I have never seen it. Do you know those movies?
Share
Kristen Meinzer
07:31
Yes. Hold on. Did you not see it? Because when this movie came out, you were in high school, and you were too cool to see this movie, because high school boys were not going to see
Beaches
, were they?Share
Rafer Guzman
07:41
What year was this again? in 1980?
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Kristen Meinzer
07:43
88.
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Rafer Guzman
07:44
I was on acid. So I'll just tell you that's that's why, that is why I didn't go see this movie.
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07:51
That's why.
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Kristen Meinzer
07:53
Oh my gosh.
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Rafer Guzman
07:54
Later, now that I'm adult, and I'm, and I'm calmed down. I would like to see this movie sometime. Maybe I'll get my wife to see it with me.
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Kristen Meinzer
07:60
Oh yeah, yeah. I'm sure you and Anne would love it. You would laugh. You would probably see all the ways that it's dated. But you would also, you know, you would probably also appreciate
Bette Midler's
fantastic performances.Share
Rafer Guzman
08:14
I love
Bette Midler
.Share
Kristen Meinzer
08:15
Bette Midler
is, she's a national treasure. She's really special. So yeah, Rafer, please see this movie. And also Hannah, please see this movie, Hannah, It does give you something that you want which is showing the complication of soulmates and these two really are soul mates. You'll see that in the movie. And sometimes with soul mates, you know things are great, things are not great.Share
08:37
They're all the different experiences of what it is to be human. Because soul mates go through ups and downs. Sometimes soulmates don't talk for years. Sometimes soulmates see the ugliest things in us, and we see the ugliest things in them, and then we still love each other sometimes. Right? Isn't that what a soulmate is?
Share
Rafer Guzman
08:53
I totally agree. Doctor Mind.
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Kristen Meinzer
08:54
Well, I'm glad you agree. Even though you haven't seen it, Rafer. But I'm dying to know what your pick is for Hannah.
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Rafer Guzman
09:01
Alright, so Hannah, I'm going to recommend a show, actually. Maybe you've seen it. I don't know. It's
Normal People
. So this is a Hulu series. It's got a lot of Buzz, the books by Sally Rooney
.Share
09:12
The story is a little bit difficult to describe in a way that might sound compelling but bear with me, it's just the relationship between these two people, Marianne and Connell, they're classmates at a small school in a kind of small town in Ireland. But they move in different social circles or well she doesn't actually have a social circle, he's a popular kid, and she pretty much has no friends whatsoever.
Share
09:36
There's a bit of a class element at work too, she's rich, and he's not, in fact his mom cleans her house, but these two are drawn to each other for some reason, and they begin a romantic relationship without anyone knowing and here are the two actors
Daisy Edgar Jones
as Marianne and Paul Mescal
as Connell.Share
Connell
09:57
It would be awkward if something happened with us.
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Marianne
10:01
No one would have to know.
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Connell
10:03
I didn't know your mom worked in the Sheridan's house. Where's Marianne like in her natural habitat. I don't know, I don't see much of her.
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Marianne
10:13
We hook up secretly like some kind of game that's actually really hot.
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10:27
I don't want people going around town saying that knocker is dating my sister.
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Marianne
10:32
It's not what I want anymore. I feel nothing for you. Nothing.
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Connell
10:38
Why are you saying this?
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10:41
Her new boyfriend is more in line with her social class.
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10:46
Are you dating anyone problematic at the moment?
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Connell
10:50
I haven't had a midnight time from you in a while. So corrupt and sexy.
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Marianne
10:59
Would you say your feelings are involved?
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Connell
11:09
Obviously.
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Marianne
11:11
Who is it obvious to?
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Kristen Meinzer
11:15
Now, Rafer I loved this book. I loved this book, but I'm just gonna warn Hannah of something if she's not familiar with the book or the TV series, which is Marianne is wonderful and Connell is stupid.
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Rafer Guzman
11:31
Now Christian this is-
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Kristen Meinzer
11:34
Connell doesn't deserve her friendship.
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Rafer Guzman
11:37
This is exactly my point about the show. I think the show asks a very important question, which is should these two people be together? You know, Marianne is a really complicated character. She might be too complicated for a guy like Connell and you know, but this you also have to ask what is it that she sees in him.
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11:59
Is he even really a very good person necessarily?
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Kristen Meinzer
12:03
No he's not.
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Rafer Guzman
12:04
You see, and I'm not gonna, I don't want to give anything away because I had a certain take on this show and a friend of mine that I was talking to the guy who recommended the book to me, he was sort of stunned that I came away thinking a certain thing about these two characters kind of, and it wasn't kind of like oh I disagree.
Share
12:21
He just, he felt more like, what are you talking about? He just didn't get it and the reason I'm recommending this to Hannah is because I think Hannah, you are at kind of uh an important point in your life.
Share
12:35
I think you probably did a very brave thing and a very good thing by drawing a line in the sand with this relationship where you weren't getting what you wanted out of it. And now I think you're going to have to examine whether or not you want it again, is this relationship important to you? Do you want it to continue? There's no right answer, there's no wrong answer, and maybe possibly
Normal People
might help you figure it out. So that's my recommendation.Share
Kristen Meinzer
13:03
Well I have to say Rafer, I like your reasoning here that that's a good reason for watching
Normal People
, for Hannah so, I'll be curious to hear what you think about it, feel free to write us back and let us know. Yeah, please Again, those recommendations are Normal People
on Hulu from Rafer, that's the miniseries and from me, Beaches
from 1988.Share
Rafer Guzman
13:26
Alright, we're gonna take a quick break, but before we do, a reminder, we love it When you rate and review us on apple podcast, just take a moment, give us a five-star review. Tell us we're good-looking and smart and tell your friends all about the show
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Kristen Meinzer
13:40
Stay with us when we're back, we have someone who might be enjoying
Social Distancing
a little too much.Share
Break
Kristen Meinzer
16:10
Yes, this is from Emily. Emily says, dear friend Kristin. First, It's so nice to hear you podcasting together again. I love the movie date so much back in the day.
Share
16:21
Here's my Movie Therapy issue. I've always been a people person, with loads of friends and a busy social life. However, since socially isolating for months, I'm finding that I have no interest in ever socializing again.
Share
16:34
I'm happy being by myself reading, watching movies and crafting and gardening. I'm concerned that I won't be able to re-enter society when the pandemic ends. Is there something I can watch that? Well, what my appetite for being with people?
Share
Rafer Guzman
16:49
That's an interesting problem, a very interesting problem, and I can sort of relate to that. I don't know about you Kristen, but I Emily, I'll just tell you that I've been stuck at home without my family for weeks at a time and that's not happening now, they're back, but they're going to be gone again for several weeks at a time, depending on how long this
Covid
thing goes.Share
17:12
They may decamp out of
Brooklyn
without me for months. Yes, I'm serious. I don't know, I don't know, I don't know what's going to happen here, you know, for me. Uh you know, I'm kind of a typical guy, I suppose, typical husband, I'm always kind of, you know, trying to get some me time, and now I'll just tell you I got more me time that I know what to do with.Share
17:32
I'm sick of me, but I kind of, I kind of know what you mean. You know, you, you sort of enjoy the isolation in a way. So I don't know, I kind of get it, Kristen. How about you?
Share
Kristen Meinzer
17:42
Yeah, I mean, I would say some of this Emily might just be
Inertia
that the body that is at rest tends to stay at rest. The body in motion tends to stay in motion, and I know that happens to me when my life is going at a certain pace. I just go, go, go, go, go.Share
17:59
And I can say more recently in the last, You know, not initially during
Social Distancing
, but more recently in the last few weeks. Yeah, I do go at a slower pace. I don't feel as desperate to do 35 things a week with all my friends. In the beginning, I definitely missed that.Share
18:15
But now I'm like, maybe it's okay if I don't leave the house for three days in a row, I get it. I get it. And again, I do think some of it is
Inertia
and that maybe once we're allowed to socialize again with other people, maybe you'll find things changing. But until then Rafer, what shall we prescribe for Emily to watch?Share
Rafer Guzman
18:36
Well, I have kind of an obscure pick for Emily, it's a movie called The Wall.
Share
Kristen Meinzer
18:42
Pink Floyd
!Share
Rafer Guzman
18:43
Not the, not the
Pink Floyd
version, not the one with, with Bob Geldof
.Share
18:48
This is, this is for much more recent. This is from 2012, and it's an obscure little movie from Austria. It's about a woman who goes off into the alps for a vacation, a little rest and relaxation. She's got these two friends, Hugo and Louise. They've got a cabin up there.
Share
19:06
She stays behind one night while the two of them decided to go walk to a pub. It's like down the mountain. Little ways along a path. It's like a, like a good long walk, they leave. But when the woman wakes up in the morning, her friends have not come back. So she walks down the path to go find them and make sure that they're okay. And as she's walking, she just smashes her face right into a giant invisible wall.
Share
19:30
It's like a massive pane of glass or like a force field or something, and it's huge. It's like endless, and as she discovers you can't destroy it even if you drive a car into it. And after a while this woman who has only ever called the woman in the movie, she has no name, she realizes that she's trapped. That's it. End of story, she is completely alone, and I won't play a clip here because the movie is in German.
Share
19:58
But I liked this movie, it didn't get a lot of traction on the art house circuit. It seemed to me like the kind of movie that would do well, you know, it's got this kind of existential crazy premise, and it's, you know, it's a foreign language film, but it didn't really take off, but it's a really interesting movie.
Share
20:14
But I think because it really makes you wonder what you would do if the rest of the world was just simply beyond your reach? Like, what if you really and truly could not go back to the life you knew.
Share
20:28
And the little detail that I always got hung up on this with this movie that I found really chilling was, think about the last time that you interacted with somebody and what if that was it, what if that was your last human interaction ever? And that was just the end of it. So, this is a really interesting movie.
Share
20:44
I will tell you it's not and upper, although I would not necessarily call it a totally bleak sort of downer depressing movie, but it might make you kind of think about, you know, isolation and the value of being around other people. So that's The Wall.
Share
21:00
And the other thing I want to say is weirdly enough, there was another movie that came out in 2012, also called The Wall Make sure you're getting the right one. This is called Die Wand That means the Wall in German, just make sure you're getting the right one from 2012.
Share
Kristen Meinzer
21:14
Oh, that sounds very intriguing and possibly upsetting, Rafer.
Share
Rafer Guzman
21:19
It is a little bit of both. I will say. It's a little bit of both. Yes and Kristin. What about you?
Share
Kristen Meinzer
21:25
Well, I am going to prescribe something completely different, and I think it is uplifting. It's a movie from 1971 by
Hal Ashby
called Harold And Maude
. Now, reefer. I know, you know Harold And Maude
. I'm sure a lot of our listeners know Harold And Maude
.Share
21:42
It's the story of a young man named Harold played by
Bud Cort
who is perfectly happy with his two hobbies which are quietly sitting in the backs of churches while funerals take place and faking his own death. These are his two hobbies.Share
21:57
He doesn't see the point of embracing life, He doesn't see the point of building human connections. He has no interest in engaging with the larger world. He's perfectly fine with just his too morbid obsessions.
Share
22:09
But then by chance he strikes up a friendship with a 79-year-old woman named Maude played by
Ruth Gordon
, who is at the same funeral as him, and together they have great adventurers and even some romance and along the way he comes to see that living life to its fullest is the most precious gift of all. Here's a clip.Share
Maude
22:32
What is your name?
Share
Harold
22:33
Harold. Harold Jason.
Share
Maude
22:35
How do you do? I'm dame Maude Chardin, you may call me Maude.
Share
Harold
22:39
How do you do? Nice to meet you.
Share
Maude
22:41
Thank you. I think we're going to be great friends, don't you?
Share
22:45
I can't give you a lift now.
Share
Harold
22:47
No thank you. I have my own car.
Share
Maude
22:49
Well, I must be off. We shall have to meet again.
Share
Harold
22:56
No.
Share
Maude
22:58
Uh No. Uh, no, I thought not.
Share
23:08
That woman! She took my car.
Share
Rafer Guzman
23:11
Well Kristen, I don't know if you know this about me, but
Harold And Maude
is one of my favorite films and I would venture to guess I have seen it possibly 50 or 60 times.Share
Kristen Meinzer
23:22
Oh my gosh, I don't know how I didn't know this about you.
Share
Rafer Guzman
23:26
Yeah, that's interesting. It was my Rocky horror. I probably spent a good chunk of my teenage years repeatedly watching
Harold And Maude
. I could almost quote that movie to you second by second from start to finish. It's one of my favorite films ever. Ruth Gordon
is great, but Cort
is fantastic.Share
23:49
It's just such a unique, weird, great movie. You know a lot of people have said that
Ruth Gordon
is a little bit of a manic pixie dream girl in her way, you know she does sort of exist. Just sort of that Harold can kind of find his, find his purpose and find happiness.Share
24:07
But I also just feel like it's just, it's just a marvelous movie. You can really see a lot of
Wes Anderson
in that movie, Hal Ashby
is one of Wes Anderson's
favorites.Share
24:18
Yeah, I just I can't say enough good things about it. The
Cat Stevens
soundtrack is just marvelous. Everything, everything about it is just great.Share
Kristen Meinzer
24:24
Well, Rafer, I'm so glad you agree with my prescription.
Share
Rafer Guzman
24:28
Yes. How could I not?
Share
Kristen Meinzer
24:29
I also just think that this is a fantastic movie, not just by the way, not just for our letter writer Emily, but for everybody else listening, if you haven't already, please see
Harold And Maude
, it is such a Valentine to life. It is a Valentine to embracing why we're here. Is there a meaning to things?Share
24:48
There may or may not be, but if there is a meaning, it is to connect with others and to enjoy this one life we have. And it really is a special reminder of that. So again, for me that's
Harold And Maude
from 1971 and from Rafer, The Wall, the German version from 2012, not the other 2012 movie called The Wall.Share
Rafer Guzman
25:09
That's right. Uh, well we're going to take another quick break, but before we do. Are you in a predicament where you could use some questionable advice and a good movie or TV recommendation, write to us at Rafer and Kristen at Gmail. com. You don't have to use your real name. We say this repeatedly. You don't have to use your real name.
Share
Kristen Meinzer
25:31
No, and I have a feeling some of the people writing in, I don't think that's your real name. Are there really this many Emily's in the world? There are a lot of Emily's. You can also fill out the contact form at Rafer and Kristen dot com or tweet us at Rafer Guzman and at Kristen Meinzer.
Share
Rafer Guzman
25:47
And when we're back, we will have Dan Pashman of the The Sporkful podcast asking, what should I watch next?
Share
Break
Kristen Meinzer
27:12
We are back and for this week's, what should I watch next segment? We have a very special guest joining us today. The one and only Dan Pashman host of the Sporkful podcast where the motto is, it's not for foodies, it's for eaters. It is such a great show and Dan, we're so excited to have you here with us today.
Share
Dan Pashman
27:30
Hey Kristin and Rafer, Great to be with you. Christian minds are former The Sporkful producer.
Share
Kristen Meinzer
27:36
Yes, yes, yes, I admit it. You're a busy guy, but I got you because I know you well.
Share
Dan Pashman
27:42
I'm happy to be on.
Share
Rafer Guzman
27:43
Alright, Dan, before we get to your question, tell us what you've been up to in The Sporkful.
Share
Dan Pashman
27:48
So you like Kristen said we kinda have two mottos. One is, it's not for foodies, it's for eaters and the other is that we obsess about food to learn more about people.
Share
27:56
So The Sporkful is really not about cooking or recipes or restaurants or chefs, it's not about healthy eating, it's really about learning about people by talking about food. So we do economic science, culture, Race, identity, pretty much any subject you can get to through food.
Share
28:11
And as you know, we've we've been talking about the intersection of race and identity and food for a number of years on The Sporkful but obviously now the country at large is talking about it, so that's been a big area of focus. We did a special episode about bon appétit a few weeks ago. They had a big sort of reckoning there, and that's looking like it's gonna be the most downloaded episode ever.
Share
28:33
We did an episode right before that called, When White People Say Plantation, that is sort of about the use of the word plantation and food branding.
Share
28:42
What are white people trying to evoke when they used that word and that was sort of an exploration of that originally came out last fall, We recently republished it. It felt very relevant. And then someone in some weeks we just do fun, you know, we have, we do take weeks that are not quite so serious.
Share
28:56
We did one with a flavor chemist where she walked me through these different experiments, like how do you train your palate to smell certain things? And that was just sort of fun science and nerdy silly. So have fun too.
Share
Kristen Meinzer
29:06
Dan, you have a, what should I watch? Next question you need help with. Let's hear it.
Share
Dan Pashman
29:12
So I'm really, I'm coming to you guys at the perfect moment in my watching journey, because I sort of like, you know, I've mostly been watching prestige TV shows and I said to myself, you know, a few weeks back, I should be watching movies. So I said, what should I watch?
Share
29:28
I start scrolling, and I ended up watching
Inception
, which I had seen once before years ago, and it was just, I really loved it, I just, I love the world, the intensity of it, the suspense. It's a, it's a very thrilling movie. It's off kilter in its brilliant way.Share
Kristen Meinzer
29:43
It's like a puzzle too.
Share
Dan Pashman
29:45
Yes, there are some parts of it, I think I still don't fully understand, but I kind of like that, I mean like why do you guys think that movie is so good?
Share
Rafer Guzman
29:53
It's just such a great, I mean, you know, it took him just years upon years to write that script, it's so multi layered and complicated and I mean the sort of physics, which they're sort of, they're kind of pretend physics, but they work, they work within that world, and they make sense within that world. That's a really hard thing to do.
Share
30:12
And I just, I love that about the movie and of course I love the visuals, I think it looks fantastic, but I really think it's sort of the screenplay almost anything more than anything that I really fell in love with Kristen, I don't know if you're a big
Inception
fan.Share
Kristen Meinzer
30:24
I remember you liked it better than me, Rafer. Because there were certain points when I was watching the movie the first time, I thought, I feel like you're just trying to trick me. I feel like you're not telling me a story, you're just trying to play a trick on me.
Share
30:36
All that being said, I still very much admire the movie. I think it's beautiful and for those who aren't familiar with it, it is diving into what happens when we're dreaming and what happens when certain people have the power to infiltrate our dreams. And it has so many great explainers for why certain things happen when we're asleep. Like what's happening when we jerk awake suddenly when we start falling asleep. Things like that. That are just so enjoyable to think about it.
Share
Dan Pashman
31:01
But I think you guys hit it on the head. Part of what I love about it is that it's like, it's, is rooted in something that feels real. So it's not totally out there. It's just real enough that you're like, maybe this is happening in the world all around me all the time and I just don't know about because I haven't been incepted yet as far as I know.
Share
31:19
That got me on this kick, like, yes, uh, I'm gonna watch movies, I want movies that are sort of intense and thrilling and suspenseful. That will be an escape. And also make me think. I'm scrolling, scrolling, scrolling. I started watching
Mystic River
, the Clint Eastwood
movie with Sean Penn
and is it Kevin Bacon
?Share
Rafer Guzman
31:37
Laura Linney
.Share
Dan Pashman
31:37
Right,
Laura Linney
is so good in that. And also Tim Robbins.
And it's very dark. Also, suspenseful a little slower, but the ending is like awfully bleak, it's just so bleak, and I'm like the last thing I need right now is anything that can make me feel more bleak.Share
31:57
And so that felt like a wrong turn in my movie watching journey. So I come to you now Rafer and Kristen uh in need of movie therapy. You know, you know that that's the last two movies I've watched, that's how they made me feel. What should I watch next?
Share
Kristen Meinzer
32:15
So Dr Rafer, what are you going to prescribe for Dan Pashman here, Dan. Who surprised us by not having a food movie question. I was expecting a food movie question, by the way.
Share
Rafer Guzman
32:25
I know I was too.
Share
Dan Pashman
32:27
Yeah, no, no, I actually I have a wide range of interests.
Share
Rafer Guzman
32:30
Okay, also
Christopher Nolan
, not really a food-based kind of director Christopher Nolan
, he's not really like a pleasure based director really in a lot of ways when you think about it. He's very brainy. Anyway.Share
32:42
Alright, so Dan, I'm gonna, I'm gonna take a little bit of a gamble here, and I'm hoping that you haven't seen this movie, but I was thinking about it because you were talking about this idea of creating a world, something that's very intelligent, something that's very rich, maybe something that's a little dark but not too terribly dark.
Share
32:60
You don't, something it's just sort of like gut-wrenchingly awful, which I totally understand. I'm going to recommend a movie. I hope you haven't already seen it From 1958.
Orson Welles
Touch Of Evil
, do you know it?Share
Dan Pashman
33:12
I do not. I mean I've heard of
Orson Welles
of course, but I have definitely not seen it.Share
Rafer Guzman
33:17
Okay, I'm going to recommend this to you because this is, I'm guessing if you were to go for
Inception
and you were to go from Mystic River
, you must have a little bit of a taste for sort of Film Noir
and that kind of that kind of genre. This is, I would say uh kind of the last great masterpiece of the Film Noir
genre may be the last word in the Film Noir
, I would say it's written and directed by Welles
.Share
33:40
He also stars in it. Uh, he plays a guy named Hank Quinlan. He's an American cop in this kind of CDUS. Border town. On the other side is a Mexican cop played by of all people
Charlton Heston
. Uh, and what looks like a slight spray tan. Uh and a mustache of course.Share
33:58
The noir itself, that's sort of the plot of this thing, you know, like most
Film Noirs
is very difficult to boil down, but basically Hank Quinlan is a corrupt cop. He's trying to frame an innocent guy for murder, Mike vargas, The Heston character knows this is not the case, and he's going to try to prove it.Share
34:14
Uh, there's a lot of drugs, there's rape, there's murder, there's corruption. I'll play a brief clip. Uh, this is
Orson Welles
, he's visiting his favorite madam in his favorite brothel, and she's played by none other than Marlena Dietrich
here she is.Share
Orson Welles
34:30
What's My Fortune? You've been reading the cards, haven't you?
Share
Marlena Dietrich
34:41
I've been doing the accounts.
Share
Orson Welles
34:45
Come on, read my future for me.
Share
Marlena Dietrich
34:48
Yeah, you haven't got any.
Share
Orson Welles
34:54
What do you mean?
Share
Marlena Dietrich
34:57
Your future is all used up. Why don't you go home?
Share
Dan Pashman
35:08
I'm curious Rafer, because I feel like
Film Noir
is a genre that I only have a vague understanding of exactly what that means. Can you just like, I mean, now I'm just curious as a movie person, like what does that mean to you?Share
Rafer Guzman
35:19
Yeah, sure. I mean it, you know, it's just, it's just, you know, Noir's French for dark basically, you know? Uh, and, it's basically they are, they tend to be detective stories, they tend to be black and white uh, in the, in the original, you know, forties and fifties, a little cynical kind of hard bitten, little pulpy.
Share
35:38
You know, things like,
The Maltese Falcon
of course is kind of the classic example, great movie called Out Of The Past
. I don't know if you ever saw that.Share
Kristen Meinzer
35:46
Double Indemnity
.Share
Rafer Guzman
35:47
Double Indemnity
. A masterpiece, of course.Share
35:51
Sunset Boulevard, another famous one that you may have seen. You know,
Mickey Spillane's
Mike Hammer
, you know, Sam Spade
, Dashiell Hammett
, you know these kind of, you know, fedoras and suits guns, fem fatales.Share
Kristen Meinzer
36:05
Smart ladies, and you might get double-crossed.
Share
Rafer Guzman
36:08
That's exactly right.
Share
Dan Pashman
36:10
By people who, by people who use the phrase double-crossed.
Share
Rafer Guzman
36:13
Exactly, that's right, yeah. Well this is, you know, this is 1958 is kind of the end of
Film Noir
and I recommend this one because it was sort of, it was kind of the ultimate sort of the ultra noir, there was sort of no place else for this to go.Share
36:29
And I think what one reason I recommend it because you, you mentioned this idea of being taken into a world and this movie really does it. It's, you know, everything about this movie really is heightened.
Share
36:42
The whole movie just kind of pops out of the screen at you. Like, the camera work is more incredible than any
Coen Brothers
movie. The cinematography is beautiful. All the performances are way up here. You know, the sets look fantastic.Share
36:56
There's this famous, famous opening scene, it's a three-minute opening tracking shot, one continuous take where a guy has got an egg timer, and he sets it, it's attached to some dynamite. He puts it in the trunk of a car, two people unknowingly-
Share
37:13
Sounds great, but it's a great tone. It sets the tone for the whole day and I think you'll, I think you'll like it Kristen, have you seen it? Do you like it? You're a fan?
Share
Kristen Meinzer
37:21
Oh my gosh, it is, that opening scene, I mean Dan just, you will not be able to stop watching the movie. If you just watch the first three minutes, you will not get up again.
Share
Dan Pashman
37:30
That's awesome.
Share
Rafer Guzman
37:31
And so Kristen. What about you?
Share
Kristen Meinzer
37:33
Alright, so my first instinct I have to say was to recommend
Interstellar
, which is another Christopher Nolan
movie, but you know what, I'm not gonna do that. I feel like that's cheating to just choose another Christopher Nolan
movie.Share
37:44
So instead, I'm choosing a movie called
Arrival
. It's a 2016 sci-fi film by, I'm sorry if I'm pronouncing his name wrong, Denis Villeneuve
, is that the right pronunciation?Share
Rafer Guzman
37:56
Denis
Villeneuve
.Share
Kristen Meinzer
37:57
Thank you. Thank you. I'm not even gonna try.
Share
38:02
It is based on a short story by
Ted Chiang
that was called The Story Of Your Life
and in the movie Amy Adams
plays a linguist enlisted by the US
army to discover how to communicate with extraterrestrials who have arrived on earth and what is fantastic about this.Share
38:21
In addition to a lot of other things is that there are those puzzles from
Inception
where it's like, what's actually happening? How do you decode language, what if the language doesn't actually involve in alphabet the way we imagine alphabets working.Share
38:36
And also the creatures, what are they saying when they're communicating, and how does time and space get bent when they talk to us? By the way, the aliens are octopus-sy shaped, which makes them super cute. They look like octopuses. Here's a clip.
Share
Dr. Louise
38:52
Okay, this is where you want to get to right.
Share
38:54
Here's the question.
Share
Dr. Louise
38:56
So first we need to make sure that they understand what a question is, the nature of a request for information. Along with the response, then we need to clarify the difference between a specific you and a collective you because we don't want to know why joe alien is here.
Share
39:18
We want to know why they all landed, and purpose requires an understanding of intent. We need to find out. Do they make conscious choices, or is their motivation so instinctive that they don't understand a why question at all. And biggest of all, we need to have enough vocabulary with them that we understand their answer.
Share
39:40
Yeah. Forget it. Stick to your list. Just don't do anything to it.
Share
Kristen Meinzer
39:51
I have to also mention that in addition to
Amy Adams
, Jeremy Renner
and Forest Whitaker
star in this movie. It is a fantastic cast. It is intense, it is dark but Dan the reason I'm recommending this, and I mean this not to be a spoiler but just to reassure you, it is not bleak at the end. It is not bleak at all, even though there are some questions and there's some mystery and not everything is necessarily perfect, but it's not bleak.Share
Dan Pashman
40:19
I'll tell you the truth, Kristen, I have seen it. That's not a bad thing to me because I saw it several years ago at my advanced age, I don't remember a lot of the details of things that I watch anyway.
Share
40:32
And so, and one of my recollection is that I felt like, you know, something that I call sort of like goodwill hunting syndrome, which is when like the, a sudden something seems to click in the movie and all of a sudden everything changes in a way that like I didn't really quite see coming, and it doesn't, it feels unearned.
Share
40:53
And I felt like all of a sudden she just understood the language, but, but I think that it's highly probable that I just missed some details. And I think that if I were to rewatch it, I would gain a deeper appreciation for the way that her understanding of the language and deciphering unfolded, and I would pick up on details that I didn't pick up on the first time. And I loved watching
Inception
a second time, and so why wouldn't I love watching Arrival
a second time.Share
Rafer Guzman
41:22
Yeah, I had a few problems with the story as well, but the one thing that I think kind of really just pulled me through it is it's such a stunningly visual movie. I mean everything about it look so incredible, and it really does pull you into that world, in this, in this chamber, you know, with this glass pane and these aliens that are, you know, making these patterns, and she's trying to figure it out.
Share
41:42
It's really, it's really riveting visually. You know, all the
Villeneuve
of stuff is, is really amazing looking, and it had such a great uh, mood, such a great atmosphere to it that I was kind of willing to just sort of sink into it and kind of let it go with the ride.Share
Dan Pashman
41:58
I guess that's, I think that's a great recommendation. I'm gonna rewatch that.
Share
Rafer Guzman
42:00
Oh, good, good, I'm so glad. And again for listeners out there refers recommendation for Dan is
Touch Of Evil
from 1958. Again, mine is Arrival
from more recently from 2016. Dan. Thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate your being here with us today.Share
Dan Pashman
42:18
My pleasure. Thank you guys so much.
Share
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🇮🇹 Made with love & passion in Italy. 🌎 Enjoyed everywhere
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Kristen Meinzer
Rafer Guzman
Hillary Whitney
C. C. Bloom
Connell
Marianne
Maude
Harold
Dan Pashman
Orson Welles