Wednesday, Dec 1, 2021 • 30min

Technoblade Discusses Returning to MCC

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Technoblade joins the podcast this week to chat about his journey from Roblox content, Minecraft Mondays, competing in MCC, and roleplaying on the Dream SMP. What content does he have planned next? Hear it all in the newest episode of BANTER. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Talking about

Speakers

(3)

Technoblade

Karl Jacobs

Sapnap

Transcript

Verified

Sapnap

00:00

Hey, what is up, guys? It's Sapnap here and Karl with the Banter podcast episode, episode 8, with our very lovely, handsome, pig friend, Technoblade.

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Technoblade

00:11

Yo, glad to be here, glad to be here.

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Karl Jacobs

00:14

Technoblade, born June 1, 1999, at the age of 22, or simply Techno is an American Youtuber known for his

Minecraft

content and collaborations with other YouTubers and Twitch streamers.

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00:25

He's a member of

the Minecraft Server

,

Dream

SMP, and has a friendly rivalry with

Dream

.

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Sapnap

00:30

Very friendly.

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Technoblade

00:31

Just reading off my Wikipedia page.

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Karl Jacobs

00:33

No.

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Sapnap

00:34

It's not even friendly. You guys hate each other. Right?

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Technoblade

00:36

That's true, that's true.

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Karl Jacobs

00:37

We need to stop pretending like it's friendly.

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Technoblade

00:39

Uh, we're only friends on camera. Off-camera, we're at each other's throat.

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Karl Jacobs

00:43

Haha, it's actually terrible. It's really hard to watch, as a friend of both of you.

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Technoblade

00:48

He broke my arm the other day. He flew in from

Florida

.

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Sapnap

00:52

Yeah, I-I gave him a goodbye hug as he went to, he told me, "I'm going to Techno's house, gonna just break his arms. "

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Technoblade

00:58

It's true, it's true. He couldn't have me rejoining

MCC.

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Karl Jacobs

01:02

Oh my God, okay.

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Technoblade

01:06

I won't leave the conversation.

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Sapnap

01:08

Speaking, speaking of MCC.

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Karl Jacobs

01:09

We should talk about what MCC is for people that don't know what MCC is.

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Sapnap

01:12

Okay.

MCC

is called a Minecraft Championship where all your favorite content creators get together to have a friendly battle to see who wins and whoever wins, gets a coin. If you win multiple times you don't get any more coins. But if you win 5, you get a special coin which no one's gotten except that I'm gonna be the first person to get it.

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Karl Jacobs

01:31

I don't think it exists.

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Sapnap

01:33

I'm gonna be the first person to get it.

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Technoblade

01:34

Yoo.

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Karl Jacobs

01:34

How many

MCC

wins are you away from it?

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Sapnap

01:37

Two.

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Karl Jacobs

01:37

You're 2 wins away? Okay.

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Sapnap

01:39

Mhmm, 2 wins away. It's going to be 1 after this next

MCC,

right, Techno?

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Technoblade

01:43

It seems very probable.

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01:46

I-I was looking at that team like oh.

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Karl Jacobs

01:50

Yeah, I've been posting a lot on Reddit about how unfair your team is this time around, Sapnap.

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Technoblade

01:55

All those threads were me.

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Sapnap

01:57

I'm combating the Reddit, you know what? I'm the best, sorry. I am that I am the greatest so.

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Technoblade

02:03

Well, you know every

MCC

player has to have their hating Reddit arc. Okay? It's a time-honored tradition.

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Sapnap

02:10

Guess it's my turn. When's your turn? Everyone loves you on Reddit?

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Technoblade

02:13

No, I, they used to call me A-tier man. It was messed up.

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Karl Jacobs

02:18

Did they?

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Sapnap

02:19

No way

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Karl Jacobs

02:19

Imagine being pissed about A-tier.

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Sapnap

02:21

I thought, I'm not gonna lie. I thought Reddit was like a Techno love area.

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Technoblade

02:24

Well, now that I'm not in the event, it is.

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Sapnap

02:26

Alright, that's fair.

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Karl Jacobs

02:28

Techno, you're widely known as the giga Chad of

Minecraft.

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Technoblade

02:32

It's true.

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Karl Jacobs

02:32

With the quote, "Technoblade never dies. "Where do you think that really began? Where do you think you were cemented as like okay, he's like god tier at Minecraft.

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Technoblade

02:40

I think Minecraft Monday is where the memes really started.

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Sapnap

02:43

Yeah, that's what I was gonna say, you, you just destroyed that event.

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Technoblade

02:46

Dude. Minecraft Monday was great.

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Sapnap

02:49

Why was that event so easy for you? Is it just easy mode?

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Technoblade

02:52

I-I'm not gonna lie there really wasn't that many like try hard PVPers in there. Like, I mean Moxie and xNestorio joined but that was like halfway through the tournament and Nestor was like right at the end. So for the first tournament so it was just like me just farming wins. So I'm like, I don't know, they bring in like PewDiePie

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Sapnap

03:13

You go like, this guy sucks.

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Technoblade

03:16

He hasn't done, he hasn't done a lot of, I don't know rod PvP or something. Actually, no, it wasn't rod PvP, which is like the one thing I'm bad at. So it was even, it was just custom made for me and then Keemstar was like, "We gotta stop Technoblade, let's add mini-games" and I'm like, "Oh, boy I'm about to pad my stats. "

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Sapnap

03:33

What do you mean? You're like a god at mini-games. You were like destroying them.

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Technoblade

03:36

Oh no, no, no, he doesn't know, pepeLaugh.

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Sapnap

03:39

Yeah, apparently he didn't know like what? He's like, "Yes, let's add mini-games and then you're like.

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Technoblade

03:44

He'll never win

TNT

Run.

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03:48

I, I remember watching the

TNT

Run. That was, that was awesome. You destroyed that

TNT

Run every single time without failure.

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03:54

Aww, it was great. Those were the days.

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Sapnap

03:56

How did you get so good at

TNT

Run was just playing

Hypixel

and stuff?

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Technoblade

03:59

I'm gonna be honest, it was never a game I thought I was good at, but then, then in the event it was free coins.

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Sapnap

04:05

Free coinage.

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Technoblade

04:06

And then they changed the map and I started getting owned but we don't talk about that.

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Karl Jacobs

04:10

Okay, we'll stop there.

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04:14

Here's the big thing, Techno.

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04:16

I don't know if you remember. It was before I really kind of knew you but Mr. Beast had a $100,000 duel between you and

Dream

.

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Technoblade

04:25

I do remember that.

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04:26

To decide who was the best Minecrafter of all time.

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04:29

That is what it decided

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Karl Jacobs

04:30

It decided it.

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Technoblade

04:31

I think we all agree

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Karl Jacobs

04:33

It was, it was 10 rounds. You guys switched between

Dream's

favorite version and your favorite version, right? And then, um, it was pretty crazy. Were you ever like hesitant to do that?

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Technoblade

04:46

Oh I, I so didn't want to do that at all. I hated the idea so—I remember

Dream

brought it up to me before it was announced. He's like "Hey, Mr. Beast was thinking we should do a duel" and I was like "Wow that sounds terrible" and then they, and then they tweeted it out simultaneously so I had no choice.

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Karl Jacobs

05:06

Wait, wait, wait, wait.

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Sapnap

05:07

Were you just like nervous or?

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Karl Jacobs

05:08

Why didn't you want to do it?

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Technoblade

05:10

Because it's like I, I was just like, this was like right at like the peak and like the rivalry with

Dream

and I'm gonna be honest, I don't really, I felt like that duel was like one of us would have to crush the other and I'm sitting here, like, I, can't, we just be friends? No, he announced it right after we were teamed in MCC, so I was sitting here like finally we can put our differences aside and be friends and then, instantly Mr. Beast tweet on my phone. Instantly,

Dream

retweet, quote retweet, "I agree. "And I'm sitting here like, oh no, oh no, no,

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Karl Jacobs

05:41

Challenging you was the idea?

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05:43

And you know, Technoblade can't look like a baby.

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Technoblade

05:46

Yeah, it's like, if they asked me privately.

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Karl Jacobs

05:48

I feel like if we're being fair, it's kind of a win-win for

Dream

because

Dream

is not, I mean, okay, yeah, I'm not saying he's bad at

PvP

obviously he'd crush me, but I feel like

Dream

is known for his parkouring ability and Techno is known for his PvP ability. If you were to ask like the layman Minecrafter right, is that fair?

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Technoblade

06:04

I feel this is, this is a retcon, if you ask me like, everyone ahead of the tournament was like, "Yo,

Dream's

about to smoke this kid" and then when I won, they're like, "Well,

Dream's

more of a survival 500 IQ guy. "

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Karl Jacobs

06:15

Exactly, it's a lose-lose for you.

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Technoblade

06:17

"Technoblade's more of a caveman that can only do 1v1s" and I'm sitting here like "What? "

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Karl Jacobs

06:22

'Cause if you won, then it's like, "Oh, it's because he's already the best of PvP, duh", but if you lost, then it's like... Wait, what am I wrong, oh, Sapnap you think...

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Sapnap

06:33

I-I was agreeing with you. I was saying—

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Technoblade

06:34

Sapnap's sitting here like "If I was in that duel I would have won but I'm just building—

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Sapnap

06:38

To be fair, I will say this, I think I could have won that duel. I don't think it's that unlikely that I could have won it. I'm just saying.

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Karl Jacobs

06:45

Out of 10 rounds if you were to go against Techno, how many rounds do you think you would have won and then compared and then against

Dream

? How many rounds?

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Sapnap

06:51

Well, I think if I was doing it like I don't know, I think I'm actually, I don't know.

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Karl Jacobs

06:56

Like, if it was against Techno, I think it's like 6-4, 7-3?

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Sapnap

06:58

I will, I will say this. I think at the time I was much, much better at 1.8 than I am now. Now I'm like really bad at 1.8.

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Technoblade

07:05

I haven't played 1.8 in so long, man.

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Sapnap

07:08

Yeah, I'm like really bad at 1.8 but now I'm like a million times better at 1.16. So I don't know, I think, I don't know, I think, I think Techno probably would have won, realistically.

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Karl Jacobs

07:16

You got another dub congrats Techno

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Technoblade

07:18

Yo.

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Karl Jacobs

07:18

How does this man fail?

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Technoblade

07:24

Let's just talk about how great I am for the entire podcast.

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Sapnap

07:28

Yeah, I mean I'm okay with that. Techno, you are so great.

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Technoblade

07:32

Thank you. Thank you.

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Sapnap

07:33

You are so just, so handsome.

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Karl Jacobs

07:35

Wait, I actually do have something I want to talk about, Techno. I was looking into you. I was doing research for this episode and—

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Sapnap

07:43

You know how Karl feels about his research.

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Karl Jacobs

07:45

You know how I feel.

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Technoblade

07:46

Doing a background check.

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Karl Jacobs

07:47

And I found an old

YouTube

channel of yours and within that old

YouTube

channel, I found your first video. I think. I don't know if this is your first video. It's the first, it's the oldest video I could find of yours and it is you playing

Roblox

.

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Technoblade

08:01

It's true. It's true. I was gaming.

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Karl Jacobs

08:04

So were you a

Roblox

kid?

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Technoblade

08:06

Oh, I was awesome at

Roblox

.

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Karl Jacobs

08:08

Really?'Cause I don't know if you know this about me, but I streamed

Roblox

for 3 years Straight before switching to Minecraft. I am a

Roblox

guy.

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Technoblade

08:17

Yeah, I made

Roblox

videos for years and I think I got like up to 40 subscribers. Don't want to brag or anything.

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Karl Jacobs

08:24

Really?

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Sapnap

08:24

Chill out, dude, what's up with this bragging?

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Technoblade

08:27

I was kind of a big deal.

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Karl Jacobs

08:28

Ironically, the video that I found was you like battling somebody? So you've been a PvPer even even on

Roblox

since day 1.

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Technoblade

08:40

They're very similar games.

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Karl Jacobs

08:42

That's awesome though. I really like that. That's so funny. When did you switch? Like were you always playing

Roblox

then Minecraft was it like both?

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Technoblade

08:50

Well, I think at one point when I made my Technoblade channel, I was like, all right, I wanna get 10 million subscribers in the easiest way possible. So, I bought Minecraft

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Karl Jacobs

09:02

He paid $26.

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Technoblade

09:05

Dude, it was money well spent.

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Karl Jacobs

09:08

10 million subscribers is your goal? Because I'm staring at your subscribers

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Technoblade

09:12

Almost there.

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Karl Jacobs

09:13

And it's very similar to 10 mil, but it's close.

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Technoblade

09:15

Almost there.

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Karl Jacobs

09:16

9.5.

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Sapnap

09:17

You're going to hit it.

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Technoblade

09:18

Yo, 10 million subscribers, let's go

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Karl Jacobs

09:22

Wait, you're at 9.5, George is at 9.8. Can you beat George? You should beat George, that would be funny.

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Technoblade

09:26

George having more subscribers than me pains me every day.

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Sapnap

09:31

He really just doesn't, he just like, doesn't deserve it, you know.

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Speaker 4

09:35

Let's just hate on George for the next 20 minutes.

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Sapnap

09:38

I am just so—

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Karl Jacobs

09:40

Oh, my God. Okay, listen, we should move to the next section, which is, Techno, you don't just PvP, you also sometimes roleplay.

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Technoblade

09:50

That's true, That's true.

Dream

SMP

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Karl Jacobs

09:53

Which is probably, you know, dare I say, significantly way more skill-based than combat. Your character kind of plays the role in the

Dream

SMP as like a, as the guy that's like an anarchist, hates governments, hates everything. Was that like when you were kind of like developing your character, were you like thinking about it or was it just like, "I'm just gonna go with the wind and while it happens on stream, it just happens. "

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Technoblade

10:20

I don't think I put that much thought into it at first, I was just like, "I'll just be the anarchist that's a, you know, no one's doing that right now. "I think I've developed it more over time. But at the start it was just like up here is something that gives me a role in the story. I hate government. Woo.

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Sapnap

10:35

Can I talk about how jealous I am that you got that role? You live the

Dream

SMP role that I so desire.

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Technoblade

10:44

You want to join The Syndicate, bro?

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Sapnap

10:47

Yes, I'll join The Syndicate.

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Technoblade

10:49

I'm gonna be so overpowered.

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Karl Jacobs

10:49

Guys, relax, I need him at Kinoko, okay? I need him there, alright guys? I feel like your character is kind of like, well I feel like our characters are great because they are kind of caricatures of how we actually act. So again, like since you like doing that competitive feeling like just attacking everybody when you see them, it like lines up with your anarchist man version of you.

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Technoblade

11:15

I think I've accidentally radicalized a generation because I keep seeing comments about how like concerned parents are having their kids turned to anarchy because of some Minecraft role-playing and they don't even mention me by name, but I'm like, uh-oh.

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Karl Jacobs

11:28

Oh, yeah,'cause they don't want to say your name too loudly.

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Technoblade

11:31

'Cause they don't know who it is. They're just like, "It's just this role-playing server. Now my kids are into anarchy" and I'm sitting here sweating bullets like, uh-oh. I just wanted high viewer counts, man.

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Karl Jacobs

11:46

If we're being fair though. Like, like yeah, that is kind of like, a more at-home character for you, but you've also like played characters on my Tales from the SMP episodes that are like a completely different character than that. Like for instance Sir Billiam and like stuff like that in all of my different— like a rich billionaire guy, which is way different than being a Minecraft Youtuber.

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Sapnap

12:09

It's actually exactly the same.

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Karl Jacobs

12:12

No, but it's funny because it's a good range. I like that.

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Technoblade

12:16

I'm just so good at acting.

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Karl Jacobs

12:18

Wait, Sapnap, and ask your question. Do your thing. Do the Sapnap thing.

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Sapnap

12:21

You want my question? Do you? Techno, I got two questions for you. It's actually kind of like a double-sided question, believe it or not, Really high-level thinking here. Do you believe in ghosts and whatever your answer is why? And also do you have a ghost story? Please say yes.

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Technoblade

12:38

I don't believe in ghosts at all. They're just not real. No. Oh, here's a, here's a story of, you know, I was living my life going outside and I didn't encounter any ghosts. It's pretty interesting.

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Karl Jacobs

12:55

Okay, well that was Sapnap's question that he asks every single person that's on the show. Here's my question. See here's the difference that the reason that I like my question is there's never not an answer to it because you like by the definition of my question, there is always an answer okay, Techno, what is your favorite cartoon of all time? Doesn't need to be a cartoon cartoon. It could be anime. It could be anything animation.

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Sapnap

13:21

What if Techno says he doesn't watch cartoons, then what pal?

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Technoblade

13:25

Oh, everyone knows I watch cartoons so just lying.

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Karl Jacobs

13:29

I'm sorry, everybody watches cartoons.

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Technoblade

13:31

It's true, it's true.

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Karl Jacobs

13:32

And even if you don't now, you definitely have.

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Technoblade

13:35

Well I feel like saying

Avatar: The Last Airbender

is too basic so I gotta rep

Code Lyoko

on this one. I loved that show.

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Karl Jacobs

13:41

Code Lyoko

. Okay, I will say

Ludwig

chose

Avatar: The Last Airbender

so I'm glad that you are not.

Code Lyoko

, that's fantastic. Holy cow, where can I watch

Code Lyoko

?

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Technoblade

13:54

I think I watched it on

YouTube

like a few years ago.

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Karl Jacobs

13:57

Okay, and it's also apparently on

Netflix

now. Dude, what?

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Technoblade

14:00

Yeah, that's—yo, Netflix, let's go.

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Karl Jacobs

14:01

Netflix not dropping the ball. Yeah,

Code Lyoko

is great. Did you ever watch

Code Lyoko

, Sapnap?

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Sapnap

14:07

No, or maybe I have, I don't recognize the name off the top of my head, though.

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Karl Jacobs

14:11

It's the one where everybody just has gigantic foreheads. I mean it is just not okay. It is really not okay what they did to those poor kids.

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14:19

I instantly—Oh, no, no, Jeremy, no. Oh, my God.

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Sapnap

14:21

I have never seen that in my life.

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Karl Jacobs

14:27

But can you agree that those are just giant foreheads

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Sapnap

14:32

There are some giant foreheads I will say.

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Technoblade

14:35

Why is their face condensed to the bottom third of their heads?

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Sapnap

14:40

Bro, it's just the art style. Don't disrespect the art style.

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Karl Jacobs

14:43

It's French animation. Did you know they made it in France?

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Technoblade

14:46

I know'cause they made like a sequel

Code Lyoko: Evolution

like 20 years later or something and I hated it.

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Karl Jacobs

14:54

Did they really?

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Speaker 4

14:55

No, don't look for it. It's terrible.

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Karl Jacobs

14:59

Is it live-action?

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Technoblade

14:60

Yes.

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Karl Jacobs

15:02

Oh my God. Wait, so this is your favorite animation?

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Technoblade

15:07

No, not the live-action one. The original, alright.

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Karl Jacobs

15:11

Wow, it did really good with a solid 1 season. Audience reviews, it just has 1 review but it's a five-star.

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Technoblade

15:20

You know if that show was good, I probably would have learned French'cause I was trying to like listen to the original French dub and then learned that way, and then the show was really bad. So I stopped watching and that's why I can't speak French.

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Karl Jacobs

15:33

Who would have thought that

Code Lyoko

wouldn't be what you bring to live-action.

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Technoblade

15:36

No one could have seen this coming.

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Karl Jacobs

15:37

Oh, wait, every single human.

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Technoblade

15:40

Now let's do

Avatar: The Last Airbender

live-action. It can't fail.

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Karl Jacobs

15:44

Yeah, that one wouldn't fail. Especially with

M. Night Shyamalan

.

Share

Technoblade

15:46

Yoe, greatest movie of all time.

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Sapnap

15:50

I kinda liked

Avatar: The Last Airbender

in live-action if I'm being honest.

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Karl Jacobs

15:55

You're one of one I think.

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Sapnap

15:57

I don't know I didn't not enjoy it.

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Karl Jacobs

16:01

Isn't it crazy? Like people remember

M. Night Shyamalan's

movies and like they look at them as like one of the best, you know what I mean? Like people, I feel like maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like people like put them up there. Like when you talk about directors like even like normies is no

M Night Shyamalan's

name right?

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Technoblade

16:17

Yep.

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Karl Jacobs

16:18

And to be fair, to give him credit, he did make

Stuart Little,

so credit where credit's due on that.

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Technoblade

16:22

No one can ever take that away from him.

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Karl Jacobs

16:25

But he made

Avatar: The Last Airbender

, the live-action movie. I feel like that's enough to be like maybe—

Share

Sapnap

16:30

You know what else is a really good action movie?

Death Note

.

Share

Karl Jacobs

16:33

Did you know I actually genuinely, there was a point in time where I wanted to be a games journalist, okay? Like

IGN

type thing.

Share

16:42

Is this like a confession?

Share

16:43

Yeah, that's a confession. That is a confession in and of itself. But then beyond that, I was not somebody that owned a lot of money in college. But since I wanted to be a games journalist, I wanted to go to all those like game conventions like

PAX

and like all that. You know what I mean?

Share

16:58

Well, how do you do that? If the tickets are like $300, you get a media pass. How do you get a media pass? By making stupid articles that don't actually matter and you don't even reread them, just so that you can submit that and then get a media badge.

Share

17:13

So, I wrote an article on why I thought the

Death Note

live-action movie was actually not that bad and that people are just mean just so, I mean to be fair, I actually did have fun with it, but it is terrible. Like I'm not going to tell you it's not terrible, but I made it and titled it like that just so that website would get more traction so that

PAX

would approve me for my media pass.

Share

17:35

That's how journalism works.

Share

17:36

I'm very proud of it and it worked. So yeah, I'm proud of that and I stand by that.

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Technoblade

17:42

I think that's just like, I think the human brain is evolutionarily wired to focus on like negative things. Just in time, dislikes have been disabled, suck it nerds.

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Sapnap

17:55

Let's do it! Let's go.

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Karl Jacobs

17:58

Turn off comments, dislikes aren't even enabled, we're good to go.

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Sapnap

18:02

Let's also talk about how like bad

Dream

sucks.

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Technoblade

18:06

Yo.

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Karl Jacobs

18:08

This is why

Dream

is overrated.

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Technoblade

18:11

There's probably like 100 videos with that title. Everybody's just dunking on him all the time.

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Sapnap

18:18

All right, Techno, fine. I'll ask a question. The question everyone's been waiting for. Techno, are you gonna watch

Spiderman

?

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Technoblade

18:31

Maybe.

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Sapnap

18:32

What.

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Technoblade

18:36

I guess.

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Sapnap

18:36

What do you mean, "I guess, "do you not like

Spiderman

?

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Technoblade

18:39

I think I watched the last one.

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Sapnap

18:40

This answer should have been this, "Yes, I love

Spiderman

. I cannot wait to watch

Spiderman

. "

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Technoblade

18:47

Listen,

Marvel

is going to have to pay me for a response like that, man.

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Karl Jacobs

18:50

Yeah, that's a lot of cheddar.

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Sapnap

18:52

That's a lot of cheddar.

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Speaker 4

18:54

I'll accept a

Spiderman

sponsorship and then I'll just promote him everywhere.

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Sapnap

18:59

I, look,

Marvel

doesn't have to pay me because I just love

Spiderman

. Fine, I'll admit it right here on live television that I am a

Spiderman

stan. I don't know

Spiderman

is just my favorite superhero so I'm really excited for the new movie but I guess someone doesn't feel the same, which is fine I guess.

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Karl Jacobs

19:16

Yeah, I've told you this before. I mean, I don't really keep up with the

MCU

just because I stand by the fact that I don't like the idea of having to watch 17 bad movies to be able to watch a few good—

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Sapnap

19:25

You don't have to watch 17 bad movies to watch a good one. That's true.

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Technoblade

19:33

Okay, listen, I don't think—trying to argue.

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Speaker 4

19:39

I love the

Dream

SMP.

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Karl Jacobs

19:42

The

Dream

SMP is so fun, dude, I'm actually really excited. It feels like it's about to be like a resurgence. You know what I mean? Like I feel like it's like a renaissance is about to happen.

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Technoblade

19:50

Let's go new lore. I remember in like December and January all the fans were like "There's too much lore. I can't handle this. "And then 2021 they're being like "I haven't seen lore in 6 months. "

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Sapnap

20:03

I miss lore. It is kind of crazy that like it's back. I think. I don't know, I think it's awesome that the lore is finally back in action. I like lore. I think lore is cool. George hates lore. High viewership is like— How was your first lore stream back? How was that? You had a lot of viewers? How many viewers did you have?

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Technoblade

20:20

I think I peaked at 616, I was going to be happy if I reached like 300k. I was going to be like "Let's go, I'm not irrelevant" so I'm pretty happy with that.

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Sapnap

20:33

I'm sorry guys, I've been having to do this for a while and I can't hold it. I really have to pee, just to be honest, I really have to pee

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Karl Jacobs

20:39

Can we all take pee pee breaks then?

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Technoblade

20:40

Let's just smack talk him while he's gone.

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Sapnap

20:43

You two just chop it up and talk about it.

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Technoblade

20:46

Let's talk about how overpowered his MCC teams are while he's gone.

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Karl Jacobs

20:50

Oh, yeah, he has the most overpowered MCC teams of all time, we need to talk about it. Sapnap always gets put in the most overpowered MCC teams—

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