Sunday, Feb 27, 2022 • 28min

From the archives: A deep dive into Afro-Latinx culture

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Afro Latin culture is explored in this archive Alt.Latino episode from 2014.
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Speakers
(4)
Felix Contreras
Bianca Laureano
Daniel Familia
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Transcript
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Break
Felix Contreras
00:24
Hey there, this is Felix. You know, Alt Latino is taking a break from making new shows for a bit while we regroup for the upcoming year. So we'll be taking a deep dive into our archive and pulling out some of our favorite coverage throughout the years.
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00:44
From
NPR
music, this is Alt Latino, I'm Felix Contreras. This week we mark the last week of
Black History Month
by bringing back an episode that celebrates the contributions of Afro-Latinx cultural figures across
Latin America.
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00:58
In February of 2014, former Alt Latino host Jasmine Garsd and I had a conversation with the folks behind the LatiNegr@s Project. Bianca Laureano and Daniel Familia were two of the minds behind the fantastic digital archive on
Tumblr
that dove deep into the history, culture and current events involving Afro-Latino artists across
Latin America
.
Share
01:23
In the following interview, Jasmine and I spoke to Bianca and Daniel about their work with the project, notable Afro-Latinx cultural figures and the music that underscores it all.
Share
01:34
If you've been following our show, you hopefully have noticed our commitment to telling Afro-Latino stories sharing music by Afro-Latinx musicians and hopefully fostering an understanding about Afro-Latino culture, even within our own communities. Here's our interview with Bianca Laureano and Daniel Familia of the LatiNegr@s Project.
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Jasmine Garsd
01:56
So, I tried to describe why I'm such a big fan of your project, but why don't you tell us a little bit more what the project is about?
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Bianca Laureano
02:12
Sure, thanks, Jasmine. So we started the LatiNegr@s project about five years ago because we just didn't see ourselves represented, not only online, but just in various forms of media. So we took to the virtual spaces that were available, which at the time was
Tumblr,
was really new, it was very youthcentric and it still is.
Share
02:33
And we created a space where people could submit images, film, video, poems, writings, links, whatever they felt represented them as LatiNegr@s, black latinos, caribeños, etcetera. And it took off in a way that we just never imagined.
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Jasmine Garsd
02:53
So, let's talk a little bit about the impetus behind the project. I mean, I think first of all, you know, we're talking about
Black History Month
here in the
US
, and about the experience of being black and latino here in the
US
, and some of the conflicts that has historically caused. I mean, it's two identities that unfortunately are sometimes seen as almost an opposition here in the
US
. I mean, how do you guys live that reality?
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Daniel Familia
03:20
Well, for me, I grew up in
the United States
and I am Dominican. However, I am of African descent, so I identify as Afro-Latino. And growing up I always was in the space of I would say denial and also loss, because I never really saw myself.
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03:38
And I always knew in the back of my mind, I never had a vocabulary for it at the time, but I knew that I had something that I shared with African Americans and I knew that it was there, but however I was not black, you know? I was moreno, I was Dominican, but I was never black, and I definitely was not African American.
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03:57
So for me these two identities never really came together. And I feel that that's what for me really changed my mind a few years ago and I started to search for my identity. But it took a long time and I feel that now, with this project, I was able to find myself and finally have a name for my identity.
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Bianca Laureano
04:19
I think I have a very similar experience to Daniel, except that I didn't grow up around people of my same ethnic groups. So, my parents migrated to the D. C. area and there weren't a lot of Puerto Ricans there at the time. And the dialogue is very much similar to what Daniel experience, where there wasn't a dialogue about our blackness, our ethnicity, our appearance, what we experience on an everyday basis within the community.
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04:46
So it was almost invisible and just never discussed. But for us moving through the world, it was just so obvious that we were treated so differently than our parents, our friends, or siblings, or cousins. That there was just really something lacking.
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04:60
So instead of having affirmative conversations that really, you know, recognized who we are and how we move through the world, it was more of a negative, that's not who you are, you're not one of them, we're different kind of conversation. Which you know, as you increase your consciousness, you recognize that that's a really anti-black sentiments that you're being exposed to.
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Jasmine Garsd
05:23
How much of those attitudes do you think are carried over from
Latin America
? For non-Latino listeners, something that, you know, there's like this weird conversation that happens sometimes when you talk about race in
Latin America.
And the conversation kind of goes along the lines of "well, we see race differently in
Latin America
, we all get along in
Latin America".
And everyone, I mean, if you have, ¿cómo se diría, "dos dedos de frente"?
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05:50
If you have one, una neurona, you know, that's not true, you know? There's a lot of race issues in
Latin America
. So, you know, what do you think of that?
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Daniel Familia
05:60
Well, you mentioned something interesting and you mentioned the idea of the dialogue and that, in
Latin America
, the concept of race is very different. And I want to really make a connection between the United States and
Latin America
. The thing is that in the United States, the black experience is totally different from that of the black experience in
Latin America
.
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06:19
Why? Well, because you had the one drop rule. One drop made you black in
the United States
, whereas in
Latin America
, I really do feel that one drop of white blood makes you white. So you have a lot of people with my skin tone, which is you know, dark moreno, that will say, "Ah no, mis abuelos son españoles". Hmm... ok!
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06:39
To a point that was me, and I had to learn to outgrow that, because I'm not accepted by people who reinforce ideas of white supremacy. That's, you know, that's not where I belong. So I really had to understand that and talking about this dialogue of race relations in
Latin America
, there really is no dialogue, you know?
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06:60
And if there is, it's like, everyone just shoves it under the table, let's not talk about it, let's ignore the fact that we do have black blood. And let's embrace and let's mejorar la raza by mixing in with white people. And that's really the dialogue that's happening.
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Bianca Laureano
07:13
So, there's definitely an attempt to separate when really the conversations can be very similar, but they just have not yet gotten to the same space, which is one of the reasons why we were excited to tap into a youth culture and space.
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07:28
To have young people also begin to become part of that conversation and move in a direction that those of us who are older, considered elders or just, you know, kind of living an analog life as I always joke, you know, we just don't have the same kind of pull as a young person might to begin those conversations and do that hard work, because it's exhausting work.
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Felix Contreras
07:49
Well from an even older perspective, from my perspective, you guys are young compared to me. But I'm noticing a lot more of that identity affirmation among black Latinos here in
the United States
recently, maybe within the last, I don't know, like five years or so, you know. Why is that, and what change things? Is it like you said, is it the youth that is no longer pushing it under the table?
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Jasmine Garsd
08:14
And we should mention that Daniel is a student at city
University Of New York
. So Daniel, you are really in touch with that very young population.
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Daniel Familia
08:24
I am, and it's interesting that you say that because I do agree with that statement that it has been really in the past, you know, five years. But I feel that for myself, I started to notice that I was oppressed in ways that people of color in this country also were. And I started to notice that, you know, I was indeed black.
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08:45
And it took me a while to say "I'm black. "I never really said it to myself until 2010. And it was then when I started searching online-
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Jasmine Garsd
08:54
Was there an event? Was there something that happened that made you realize that?
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Daniel Familia
08:58
It was through the internet that I started looking up terms such as, well, I started with the word Dominican. And then I went to Wikipedia. I looked, you know, oh, there 80 to 90% people of African descent. I clicked on that, I clicked on notable Dominicans, I like that skin color.
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09:15
I started just looking at all these terms, and it was through that that I found books, I found websites and I eventually came and I found the LatiNegr@s project, and I've been part of it for a year now.
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Felix Contreras
09:28
You know, it wouldn't be Alt Latino if we didn't play some music to help tell the story. And what we've done is we've collected a handful of songs that reflect Afro-Latino tradition from various countries, and then we've matched them up with contemporary musicians, contemporary artists, contemporary producers who have taken that tradition and then expanded it.
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Jasmine Garsd
09:48
And since both Daniel and Bianca are of the beautiful Caribbean, Felix, you picked a really lovely Caribbean song.
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Felix Contreras
09:56
Well we're going to start with something from the
Dominican Republic
. This is
bachata
, tha it's from an album that has classic
bachata
roja, and this artist is named Juan Batista and the name of the song is "Yo te tengo pena".
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10:09
Then we're going to segue into a piece of music produced by the DJ Uproot Andy, where he takes
bachata
into this space age, man, and really does something cool with it. But first tradition, and then listen to Uproot Andy.
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10:59
[Yo te tengo pena_Juan Batista]
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11:01
[DJ Uproot Andy]
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Jasmine Garsd
11:03
So, the other night I was at this party in
Mexico
. Well, it was actually like 7 in the morning. And this guy and I were talking about
bachata
,
bachata
is one of my favorite forms of music, it's this Dominican form of music, it has this really amazing history.
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11:24
Anyway, and I told him like, you know, bachata, when you dance bachata, it's like a vertical lovemaking. And he was like, "Oh I think I'm not doing it right". Pobrecito, pobrecito!
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11:50
But so, I mean, bachata is so interesting, you know? Because in the
Dominican Republic
when it was bachata roja, Daniel, you know this so much better than I do. But it was, you know, really frowned upon, especially by the dictator
Trujillo
. And part of that was because it was seen as this vulgar, lower class, read code word for very black music.
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Daniel Familia
12:16
Indeed. And I actually found that out not so long ago, and I was actually surprised. Because you know, for me growing up like in late 1990s and early 2000's, when I went to the
Dominican Republic
to live, I was listening to bachateros like
Elvis Martinez
. And you know, his songs were just so passionate and full of love, and I love these songs.
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12:40
And when I found this out I was like, oh wow! But you know, I was like why? And I found online that this is like, oh, you know, this is just the music of the young people. But for me it was actually the music of the old people. So it's pretty surprising, but now with all these new artists and changes, I'm like, hmm, bachata is not the same, it's too pop.
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Jasmine Garsd
13:00
Daniel and Bianca, I want to ask you guys, as you are embarking and have embarked on this road of self discovery, and facing, confronting the issues that really are important to our community; how do you, does your family react to this? And Daniel, being from a Dominican family, how does your family react to you saying "I'm black"?
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Bianca Laureano
13:24
Yeah. You know, we have some stories, right? Thousands of stories to share about family. And the decision that I've made with my family, you know, I kind of feel like I'm the standard person from a Latino family, you know? I came out looking completely different from everybody else in my family.
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13:42
We have someone with blonde hair and blue eyes, my parents are very, very fair skinned, straight hair. And they have been mistaken and passed for white for a majority of the time that they lived in the
US
. You know, people were shocked, when they were to speak Spanish.
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13:59
So they moved in the world in a very different way. And then I came out, and to this day I don't know if my parents know that they raised a woman of color. I don't think it's like, connected to them yet. Because they, you know, see me as their daughter, yet not always as a woman of color.
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Jasmine Garsd
14:17
And Bianca, since we're doing radio, our audience can't see how, yeah, well you're a very beautiful woman. But you know, you don't have blond hair, right?
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Bianca Laureano
14:29
I colored it, but you know, yeah, it's not... Yeah, you know, I don't look like members of my family, and that's so typical I think, for many families from the Caribbean. But also just where, you know, the transatlantic slave trade hit up. I mean, it's just the way that colonization has worked, how exploration and conquest has worked.
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14:51
So the conversations I had with my family around my blackness are really, they're not exactly happening, and that's for a couple of different reasons. I am older, maybe Felix is older, but I'm in my 30s.
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Jasmine Garsd
15:02
Nobody is as old as Felix.
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Bianca Laureano
15:03
So, you know, my parents are older. And so, you know, conversations about this stuff, they're kind of fixed in their perspective. But there, my mother has Alzheimer's, so she doesn't remember what we're going to talk about.
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15:18
So at the end of the day, you know, I really did have to decide which battles am I going to choose to have conversations with my parents about. And you know, I choose to have the you're not gonna have grandkids conversation over the black conversation. So that's my personal choice, but I'm sure Daniel has other stories as well.
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Daniel Familia
15:39
Well, for me, it really is a battle. Because as I said, when back in 2010, when I found myself, I found my identity and I was growing into it. I tried to have these conversations with my parents and my family, and it really didn't go well.
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15:54
You know, it just happened that it was like, "no, yo no soy negra". My mom just saying, "no, I'm not black". But I was like, but look at our skin color, and she was like yeah, but no. And it was really just that, you know, we can't really move beyond that.
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16:07
However, my mother is on the dark side, but she's lighter than me, but her hair is not afro-textured. It's more of, she gets confused a lot with being from like
India
or like, Indo-Guyanese, she gets that. But she does not get "oh, she's black", no.
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16:28
My father is really light skinned, his parents had blue eyes. And when my mother was pregnant, her fear was of having a black baby with blue eyes, because she thinks that that doesn't look well. So that was really one of her concerns.
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16:43
But no, my family, they can't move beyond that. They're like, "yo seré morena, but I'm not black", I might be brown, but I'm not black. And no, it's primarily amongst the younger generation that, you know, we talk about this, and we socialize with other people of color. But no, my family doesn't really take it well.
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Bianca Laureano
17:02
It's important that if you do come from families like Daniel's and ours, to know that you can still survive living in that type of environment, you can still build a community, you can still have chosen family and you can still be all the person that you are, and find other ways to cope that aren't, you know, reinforcing a harmful pattern.
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17:24
And then don't isolate you further from your family. Because I think that's a struggle for all of us as well, is, you know, where is the line for me to draw between, you know, being able to spend holidays with my family, being able to live in the same home as my family, yet they know that the aspects of my identity are completely, ones that they're ashamed?
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17:43
There are ways to do it. It's not easy, I mean, and it probably won't ever be easy. But, you know, having support systems and support networks and just places where you can go, to remind yourself that you're not alone, that you're not as different as your family wants to think you are.
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18:03
And that there really is a space for LatiNegr@s. It was really the drive and is the drive for having the project still exist, and for having it be online where anybody from all over the world can access it.
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Felix Contreras
18:15
Okay, before we talk to you about some of the stories that you hear on your website and from the project and some of the things that come up, let's stop just briefly for a little bit of some more music. Okay, this time we're going to go to
Colombia
, the African-influenced music of
Colombia
from the pacific coast.
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18:31
We're going to start with an album by a group called dating Herencia de Timbiqui, and this is a CD that Jasmine and I picked up when we traveled there November of 2010. And Herencia de Timbiqui is a group of musicians who played various forms of music in
Bogotá
.
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18:48
But they specifically work with traditional music in this group, and we're going to hear a song that they do called Pacifico. And then I'm gonna guide you into the next modern version of this, and and so check this out. Starts with traditional
marimba
from
Colombia,
which is a big part of the Colombian culture.
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19:45
[Pacifico_Herencia de Timbiqui]
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Jasmine Garsd
19:45
Marimba
is like, such a special instrument.
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Felix Contreras
19:48
So, they're are also using some traditional drums from the pacific coast that looked like West African
djembes
with a stick. And here, listen to this base part.
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20:06
[Pacifico_Herencia de Timbiqui]
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Felix Contreras
20:07
Now we're gonna switch over to listen to this space part. This is Bomba Estéreo, from their album Elegancia Tropical.
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20:18
[Bomba Estéreo_Bosque]
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Felix Contreras
20:29
The two leaders of the band are both from
Colombia
and what they've done is they've really transformed that tradition that comes from both the Atlantic and Pacific Coast of
Colombia
into their powerful, amazing sound that they do. And this particular track is called Bosque. And like I said, you can hear that bass: boom boom boom boom boom boom.
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21:00
That's what they imported, and then you layer all these other electronics onto it to make this really great song.
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21:08
You're listening to Alt Latino, I'm Felix Contreras. This week we're jumping back in time to celebrate the last week of
Black History Month
by revisiting an interview we did back in 2014 with two of the people behind a digital cultural archive of Afro-Latinx history and popular culture. Here's more of that interview.
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21:29
Earlier you talked about some of the things that come into the project and I wanted to circle back to that. What kind of stories do you guys hear from people who write into the project? What kind of themes constantly pop up and how do you guys deal with them?
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Bianca Laureano
21:41
Well, we get a lot of questions from young people, and they ask questions like: what am I? Can I identify as Latina? Can identify as a LatiNegro? You know, what's the process? And you know, those are questions that we really can't answer for people, but we can help guide them to have a conversation, not only with followers, but with people in their communities as well.
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22:03
And to think about, okay, what does it mean that you may move to the world with certain types of privilege, or may experience certain types of oppression because of the way that you look and because of where you come from? So it really depends on the day, but we get a range of questions all the time that really are rooted in those three topics.
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Daniel Familia
22:20
We have a lot of dialogue, a lot of people are reblogging posts and they're starting conversations. Other times what we do have and we get a lot of these are representations of LatiNegros. We get pictures, we get videos, and that people really like, because it's something easy that they could see and relate to and people post that.
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22:39
And it's something that I feel that we need to have, we need to have that representation. So that's something that we really do focus a lot on and that younger people really do pay attention to.
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Jasmine Garsd
22:49
I also wanted to ask you guys, you know, I live in
Mexico
right now, I'm from
Argentina
. And one thing that is really hard to to explain, almost, to someone who has never been to
Latin America
is, it's absolutely amazing, you turn on the television and you will see, I would say 99.5% of the people who are reading the news, who are acting, who are entertaining you. 99.5% of them look nothing like the population of that country.
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23:21
It is amazing. I mean, every, you turn on the TV you would think you are in
Russia
. How much of the perception and the issues of racism within our community is something that needs to change inside of our community, in the entertainment industry of our own communities?
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Daniel Familia
23:38
Yes,
Latin America
, definitely agree. And it's something that that's one of the reasons why I don't watch Dominican media, I don't watch Dominican news. It's because the people there are like, every woman standing there, even the entertainers or dancers, they're all very white.
Share
23:54
The TV host, the show host is very white, and I'm like 90-90% of the country is afro descendant. How is this possible? And when we are on the show, we're always like the crazy black person, or the oversexualized woman or something. And let's like, let's not even go that far. In the United States I watched some Latino news. But the one person that I saw myself represented is Hilda Calderon, an Afro-Colombian woman. And she was the first person that I really said wow, there's someone that looks like us!
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Bianca Laureano
24:26
Yeah, and I think that's one of the reasons why music really penetrates for many LatiNegros, because that's where we really see each other first, and hear each other. And that's a really amazing thing to have.
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24:40
And so, you know, I remember growing up in Washington D. C. and going to free concerts that
Celia Cruz
would do for the Latinos in the community. And this was like 30 years ago, you know? But to see this ultra feminine dark skin Latinas speaking, you know, Spanish and just being in these outrageous costumes, I mean, it's hard not to be impacted by that, you know, representation in that performance.
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25:07
And to this day, like that's a legacy that she's laid that we can see in just so many different genres. You know, it's dancehall queer culture in many ways. And we see that now with, you know, different types of popular artists and their representations borrowing from her.
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25:24
But you know, people like
La Lupe
were really important in our community as well, because they were not only performers and cultural producers of music, but they also lived lives that were flawed. They weren't perfect, you know, and that's who they were. They were completely human.
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25:44
And that was something that's really important for people to see, because it reminds you that you're human as well. And that even though you might not be an entertainer or performer, that there is someone that you can connect with and see yourself in.
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Felix Contreras
25:59
Well let's talk about that for a second, because going back, like I had no idea that
Sammy Davis Junior's
mother was Cuban. Now, fast forward a little bit, and now you have people on the air in entertainment and news even who are right out front with their ethnicity. And I'm thinking of
Soledad O'Brien
who was was on
CNN,
who has been very, very open about her Cuban and Puerto Rican ancestry.
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26:26
You know,
Zoe Saldana
now, in the
Star Trek
movie, which I loved.
Rosario Dawson
, you know. I mean, it's a different mindset now, and these these entertainers and things are embracing that now right.
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Bianca Laureano
26:44
And you know, and in a very political way, which I appreciate. So you know, I think back to how revolutionary watching, what's it called, the
Spike Lee
film about the buffalo soldiers, a
Miracle at St. Anna
, and the main character is a LatiNegro. Not only is it
Laz Alonso
, who already is a black Latino, but the story is about a black Puerto Rican man, based on his lived experiences.
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27:08
And you know, to have
Spike Lee
cast one of us to play us, and to have this film blow up, and it not blow up in the United States, is really telling. And the fact that a majority of the funding for that film was not from the United States is also very telling. You know, I think having representation is just essential and you know, we can think of a ton of other performers and actors and what have you.
Share
27:34
But I think the difference today is that people can actually speak out in a way that may not have been possible. So, for example, your
Sammy Davis Jr
example, for so long people thought that he was Puerto Rican. And you know, that was a question that came up for a minute at the LatiNegr@s project as well.
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27:51
People were like, is he Cuban? Is the Puerto Rican? And it had to be revealed that he didn't want to come out as being Cuban, because of the political ramifications or backlash that he was worried he would receive in addition to being a black man, because of the politics at the time. And to see how that still lives after his death is really telling from a political landscape.
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Felix Contreras
28:14
Now, speaking of
Cuba
, from
Sammy Davis Jr
, we're going to take a music break right now with some Cuban music that I brought in. We're going to start with a trio of Afro-Cuban musicians. It's
Bebo Valdes
on piano,
Cachao
on bass and
Patato Valdez
on the conga. They're gonna play whatyou can call its Cuban song.
Share
28:36
Okay, then we're gonna segue into a piece of music that I thought was that brilliantly combined Cuban song and electronica. And then we're gonna throw in a little
santeria
music just to make it even more interesting. This is a track we're gonna start with the Bebo Valdés Trío playing a track called El Reloj de Pastora.
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28:55
[El Reloj de Pastora_Bebo Valdés Trío]
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Felix Contreras
29:19
This is a very elegant form of Cuban piano style which
Bebo Valdes
was famous for.
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29:25
[El Reloj de Pastora_Bebo Valdés Trío]
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Felix Contreras
29:31
Now. We segue into this piece of music by a British dubstep producer named Mala. He traveled to
Cuba
and recorded a bunch of Cuban musicians playing various Cuban traditional styles. So, he's using the same piano style.
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29:44
[Mala]
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Felix Contreras
29:60
And then he brilliantly switches into a santaeria field that slowly percolates under that piano.
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30:21
[Mala]
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Speaker 7
30:22
I wanna to mix in now something to give you an idea of where that santeria field comes from. A very slow plodding groove, and that's what he approximated on the previous track. This is from an album called Bembe from an artist by the name of
Milton Cardona
, was released in 1985. It's a collection of songs to the Orishás in santeria. This is very, very traditional.
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30:47
[Bembe_Milton Cardona]
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Jasmine Garsd
30:49
It's so cool to reach out to people who are doing new and very innovative and exciting projects. Thank you so much for what you do.
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Bianca Laureano
30:59
Thank you.
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Daniel Familia
30:60
I wanted to say that a couple of years ago I was looking online and I actually found a Alt Latino, and it was through you that I discovered someone from my own country,
Rita Indiana
. And then I discovered
Susana Baca
.
Share
31:12
So I think that social media is important because, you know, people are actually looking for this information, they're looking for these spaces, they're looking for a community. And I was one of those people, and I still am, and I'm looking for it.
Share
31:23
So, you know, it's mutual. It's because of Alt Latino that I discovered these artists and you know, you start looking for people and you see yourself in these representations. So you know, it's definitely an important thing. You know, social media is definitely going to change these dialogues of, you know, identity and representation.
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Felix Contreras
31:42
Well, thank you for saying that Daniel, I'm I'm definitely from the analog world. So, having that kind of impact on social media is pretty astounding, definitely. Speaking of
Susana Baca
, we have a track in fact from
Susana Baca
.
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31:58
She's the leading exponent of Afro Peruvian culture, and she's internationally known because her records have been selling all over the place. She was also named as the Minister of Culture in
Peru
in 2011, so she's a very high profile performer that explores all of those traditions.
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32:11
We're going to start with a track called Cardo y Ceniza and then we're going to segue into a group called Nova Lima. They're all all from
Peru
and they're going to do their updated version of the song Cardo. Check this one out.
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32:27
[Cardo y Ceniza_Susana Baca]
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Felix Contreras
32:33
This is a rhythm called
landó
and it is performed in six, very much like santeria, but much slower. It's like drawn out. And that is one of the main areas that
Susana Baca
has worked in.
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32:49
[Cardo y Ceniza_Susana Baca]
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Felix Contreras
33:01
So here's that modern version of landó.
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33:06
[Cardo y Ceniza_Susana Baca]
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Felix Contreras
33:07
Well, that was cool to hear that Daniel discovered Afro-Latinx artists through Alt Latino. That reinforces our commitment to representation at all levels, even six years after this interview 1st aired. That was from the 2014 Alt Latino episode called Black, Latino and Proud
- Black History Month
without Latino.
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33:30
You know, looking back at our
Black History Month
coverage that year, I see an examination of the musical ties and differences between
Haiti
and the
Dominican Republic
. That featured one of our interviews with the respected Dominican musician
Rita Indiana
. And we also talked to some musicians about the history of the impact of hip hop in
Latin America
- Two circles of the African diaspora coming together.
Share
33:54
And can I brag for a moment? Take a moment to go to NPR. org/altlatino and click on any year going back to 2010. There is a lot to discover if you're new to the show. And that's a wrap for this week's Alt Latino.
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